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we are live

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hope everybody is doing well i am gonna

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just make sure that we're live and my

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settings are good

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yes we are

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and then jay will be joining joining us

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just give me one second

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hmm we are live

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all right no echo because i'm killing

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youtube uh so yeah a couple of days ago

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i i saw the article by ralph laurenthal

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that was published in in the debrief uh

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that he had tried to get published in

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the new york times and then

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i don't know how jay and i connected but

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we did and i asked him to be on the show

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so he's here

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and i will bring him in now because i

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really enjoyed reading about his story

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and i want to hear more

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how's it going today

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it's going great thanks for having me

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yeah thanks for being here uh

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who are you what do you do so what do

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you do for a living

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what i don't know about you

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right um

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well um my name's jk i uh

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i um

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uh gosh how do i synopsize this well

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first of all uh

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you know these days i'm i'm the

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co-founder of the experiencer group

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which is a private member site

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uh

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for um

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anomalous experiencers

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and um that started back in february and

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that is partially the context for like

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like how

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like i kind of blipped up on ralph's

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radar you know so the experiencer group

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is a site dedicated to support curiosity

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and community for people who've had

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anomalous events of all kinds so that

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could be um

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you know non-human entities ufos

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out-of-body experiences near-death

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uh

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precognition like all like all forms of

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kind of like

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the experience or realm right and um

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we've got like custom-built social site

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and we do a lot of like private like

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support group zooms we do a lot of like

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event amas so we'll we'll bring in

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special guests for the members to chat

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with so like we've had leslie kane jeff

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kreipel richard dolan um

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uh folks like that come in and just talk

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to our group uh you know

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in a way that's not public you know

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and so that we can kind of get to some

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of these deeper questions

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that um that aren't necessarily like

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you know um ready for tv or ready for

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twitter in terms of like

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um

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you know like a lot of the stuff is

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there's a lot of sensitive

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topics involved

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with situations like this and

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you know people

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um

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and there's been so much

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uh

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you know it's it's nice for it just to

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be that group and so the experiencer

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group has

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has been

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like a really fantastic

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um

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situation for me like it's been a really

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it's been a gross experience so anyway

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like before that like you're like i went

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to art school i like i live in i live in

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new jersey

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um

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uh i

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i've lived out here on the east coast in

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the new york city metro area for

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uh

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21 years now i guess and i i don't know

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if i told you i grew up in long island

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so

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that's right we're down in long island

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and when that and ended up in flushing

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and i used to visit my grandmother in

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clifton new jersey i'm not sure if it's

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anywhere near you but i know clifton

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yeah for sure yeah i was in clifton like

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two weeks ago

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so um

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so i i went to art school at sva at

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school of visual arts

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i got a fine art bachelors you know um

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and then i i

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went to school for film uh up at bard

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college upstate and um

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and then i started working on tv you

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know you work in tv i used to work in tv

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i like i mainly did i mainly worked for

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the discovery channel and their

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properties

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so like you know animal planet discovery

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tlc all that stuff and

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um i was just uh i was a junior level

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like associate producer on a lot of like

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quote-unquote non-fiction shows you know

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so like uh like uh

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like travel shows like

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like uh there's like a like the survival

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shows you know things like that right

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and so um

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and so doing writing and doing like

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functional producing as an associate

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producer or a field producer for stuff

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like that often right kind of an

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uncredited writer often as well

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um

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and so

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i i did that for a period of years and

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as you know that's that's a hard grind

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like working on tv is a really really

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hard grind and like people don't

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recognize often

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some people do but a lot of people don't

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that we're talking like

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80 hour weeks easy you know and that

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that's like

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that can be like on a good week it could

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be 80 hours like on a show like that

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yeah and so

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you know like

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at a certain point i was like

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like what am i doing like you know like

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like where where is this going like do i

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feel

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what i'm doing right and um

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and

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you know i i think that there's

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so

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it was kind of part of my kind of like

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there's a point where like basically

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like i went from kind of like being

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a

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like

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you know

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it's a long answer to your question but

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like they're like and this is kind of

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common for some people like

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like getting jobs where you're going to

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be all night

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because because

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you don't want to be alone in your own

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house like at a certain so i used to

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work as a bartender before i worked in

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tv

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like weird hours

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and like it it really kind of like

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there was

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so

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experiences by taking those jobs

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in a way yeah yeah they're like there

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there's there's a whole system like

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towards like my my late 20s where where

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things were just getting so

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it was just it was such a regular

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pattern

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and it was something that i couldn't

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predict but it but it happened so

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frequently that like i was like i need

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to i like i was doing everything i could

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trial and error to to like

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to see what could break it up if that

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makes sense

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no it does and

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so talk

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take me to your first anomalous

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experience when you were younger

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sure um okay so

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and it's kind of a strange one but like

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the first anomalous experience that i

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remember was when i was about three or

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four years old i was living in fort

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wayne indiana at the time

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and um

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and i was in my bedroom and i was just i

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was shoving like a plastic bin of toys

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like like across like my carpeted floor

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and

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like

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um

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and

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i'd never seen anything like that before

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i've never seen anything quite like that

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since

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and um

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you know at that age like that like like

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you know when you're that young like so

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much is is new to you like it's like at

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that age almost everything that you

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encounter in a way is like new to you

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right and it or you and so there's

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it's interesting because there there's a

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level of acceptance that happens if you

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know like i

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so i

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i

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so these two

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things like kind of show up and and

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they just have this like really brief

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short

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telepathic message

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right and and it was like we know you

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and um

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we won't be able to visit you later

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and

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so we're visiting you now

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um and

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and it was just kind of like this this

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um feeling of like warmth and love

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and uh then they blipped out

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and

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i have no idea

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i have no conception of like what that

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would necessarily be right

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um

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and so i i ran into the kitchen where my

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mom was and i was like mama my mom like

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he's too thin like it was crazy they

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talked to me and uh like in my head

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and she was like it's cool

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you know those are imaginary friends

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totally normal it's fine you know

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and i was and i was trying to say like

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no like they were really there you know

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and she was like no it's fine it's cool

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you know and

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so like already at that age i had there

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was like this kind of like

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i recognized that that

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there was like some kind of schism you

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know

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and my mom's like

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like one of the best

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she's my mom is the sane my mom's

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incredible so nothing against my mom the

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situation i think she was you know she

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was a young mother she was like handling

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it the best she could right yeah i think

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everybody i think a lot of parents go

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through i mean i have in my baby book i

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have a thing called

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i don't know what this means but i would

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always write down apparently i would

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tell my mom

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something would happen and i would say

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the robot made me do it what the robot

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was i have no idea i don't have any

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memories of that but for people who say

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well how does jay have a memory of four

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years old and i have a memory of four

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years old being dropped off at the

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hospital for a hernia operation clear as

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day i mean clear as day i remember being

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dropped off so something sticks out

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something dramatic

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so i'm not surprised that you remember

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that um what exactly did they look like

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um it was like it was almost like

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um the best that i could describe it is

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kind of like the characters from like

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the abyss or like predator like this

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kind of like almost water droplet like

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shimmery

287
00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:02,720
like not so not even as concrete as

288
00:11:07,509 --> 00:11:04,959
those effects in those movies but

289
00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:07,519
like like a kind of like just a bite you

290
00:11:11,829 --> 00:11:09,440
know you could see a head and shoulders

291
00:11:13,430 --> 00:11:11,839
like very skinny kind of tall it seemed

292
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:13,440
like there was kind of like light it

293
00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:15,279
almost seemed like it was composed of

294
00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:16,880
light and water but you could tell that

295
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:18,079
there was

296
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:20,560
it was like on this level and

297
00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:23,279
on some other layer of reality somehow i

298
00:11:27,350 --> 00:11:25,360
don't like you know i don't i don't have

299
00:11:30,150 --> 00:11:27,360
any explanation for what that is

300
00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:30,160
or what that was but but um yeah that's

301
00:11:35,030 --> 00:11:32,399
the best i could describe it and it's

302
00:11:36,790 --> 00:11:35,040
as far as you remember it was real it

303
00:11:39,750 --> 00:11:36,800
felt real

304
00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:39,760
100 yeah like i mean the

305
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:42,560
the thing is is that like you know it

306
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:45,360
was it was at such an age

307
00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:46,320
that

308
00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:52,480
you know over the years like i

309
00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:53,519
like

310
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:55,680
there is validity for me in that is that

311
00:11:58,629 --> 00:11:57,200
at that age

312
00:12:01,430 --> 00:11:58,639
like i don't know if this is true for

313
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:01,440
you but like what i catalogued from like

314
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:03,040
my early memories from when i was a

315
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:05,279
child are like the the total oh [\h__\h]

316
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,399
moments like like like like you know

317
00:12:12,629 --> 00:12:10,480
it's like you put your hand on the stove

318
00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:12,639
or you like you fall off of something

319
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:14,399
like you fall out of a tree whatever it

320
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:17,040
is like like those those early things

321
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:19,040
where it's just like don't don't your

322
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:21,040
brains just like it flags it because

323
00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:22,800
it's like don't do that again or like

324
00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:25,680
this like danger warning whatever and

325
00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:27,600
like for whatever reason you know i like

326
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:30,399
i'm 42 years old this is over you know

327
00:12:34,949 --> 00:12:32,480
well over 30 years ago now and it still

328
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:34,959
is kind of like flagged in there with me

329
00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:37,600
like getting bit by a goose

330
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:39,120
you know what i mean like stuff like

331
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:40,959
that

332
00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:46,000
what kind of

333
00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:47,120
and

334
00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:51,760
like that fragmentary memory like clear

335
00:12:56,069 --> 00:12:54,399
as day you know and it's you know it's

336
00:12:57,829 --> 00:12:56,079
so they said basically we may not be

337
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:57,839
able to communicate later which me i

338
00:13:01,269 --> 00:12:59,600
mean right away i think well maybe

339
00:13:02,790 --> 00:13:01,279
because we're so open at that age you

340
00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:02,800
know like you said

341
00:13:06,550 --> 00:13:04,560
it's brand new to you you don't question

342
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:06,560
it i mean yeah it's it's obviously

343
00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:08,160
different you remember it but it's not

344
00:13:11,509 --> 00:13:10,160
like you know i've had i had experiences

345
00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:11,519
when i was younger

346
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:13,279
like anomalous dreams that turned out to

347
00:13:16,790 --> 00:13:14,720
be true and i'm like at the time i

348
00:13:19,269 --> 00:13:16,800
didn't think anything of it until like

349
00:13:20,949 --> 00:13:19,279
10 years later i'm like oh that was

350
00:13:23,590 --> 00:13:20,959
not everybody has those or people do

351
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:23,600
have them but it's anomalous so maybe

352
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:25,120
that's the thinking

353
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:26,320
as far as what they were saying

354
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:27,839
communicating with you then until and

355
00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:29,440
they couldn't do it later

356
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:31,600
and we're speculating

357
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:34,480
100 and like you know i i don't have

358
00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:36,720
answers i just have really big questions

359
00:13:41,269 --> 00:13:39,120
you know and so like i don't like i i

360
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:41,279
don't know who those beings were one

361
00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:43,760
seemed more masculine one seemed more

362
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:44,720
feminine

363
00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:45,680
but

364
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:48,160
you know it was such a short experience

365
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:50,160
that and it was so long ago that it's

366
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:51,760
hard to kind of

367
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:52,800
like

368
00:13:57,269 --> 00:13:55,600
i i kind of resist the urge to kind of

369
00:14:01,189 --> 00:13:57,279
like

370
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:01,199
what i mean or i have over the years but

371
00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:03,600
like i'm not i'm not

372
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:06,880
driven to find it like i like with that

373
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:10,079
situation it was so singular that like

374
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:11,519
you know it's

375
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:13,760
i probably won't know what that was

376
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:16,480
until you know the day i die

377
00:14:19,509 --> 00:14:18,160
like at best right or something like

378
00:14:21,750 --> 00:14:19,519
that you know what i mean

379
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:21,760
anything um did they seem familiar to

380
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:23,120
you at all

381
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:25,680
they did yeah but like at that but at

382
00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:27,279
that age it's like

383
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:29,120
you know it's three like you kind of

384
00:14:33,670 --> 00:14:30,959
want to be friends with everybody right

385
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:33,680
you know there's like and so like even

386
00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:36,240
that it like it's hard to know what that

387
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:38,720
really was you know and i also recognize

388
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:41,040
that for a lot of people like like we're

389
00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:43,040
starting with a story that is already a

390
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:44,880
bridge too far and i've totally

391
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:46,560
recognized that you know what i mean

392
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:48,959
like most of the other story most of the

393
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:51,040
other like situations from from my

394
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:52,000
history

395
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:53,760
there are you know often there are other

396
00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:55,199
people involved

397
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:57,040
that can corroborate things there there

398
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:58,399
are and

399
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:00,240
are there things that'll be a little bit

400
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:02,639
more familiar to people often you know

401
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:05,279
within within this kind of a context and

402
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:06,800
so i recognize it's coming from a weird

403
00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:09,120
place but like that's part of like kind

404
00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:11,360
of like the inconvenient nature of

405
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:13,360
anomalous experience a lot of the time

406
00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:16,160
like it gets messy and and like i think

407
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:17,680
that's one of the reasons why people can

408
00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:19,600
be like really resistant to this kind of

409
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:20,720
stuff because

410
00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:23,120
they don't know how like sometimes they

411
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:24,800
don't have a context and they don't know

412
00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:26,720
how far down that road

413
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:30,240
they can go if that makes sense and so

414
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:31,680
sometimes bridging those gaps i

415
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:33,920
understand that that it can be it can be

416
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:35,360
pretty far but

417
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:37,040
you know at the same time there's often

418
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:38,720
this situation where it's just like

419
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:40,639
you'll talk to somebody and they're like

420
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:42,000
they're like ah yeah nothing ever

421
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:43,920
happened to me and they're like actually

422
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:45,920
you know and you know there was this one

423
00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:46,880
time

424
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:48,800
you know and it's like

425
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:50,959
and there and like so many people

426
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:52,399
there's like yeah there was this one

427
00:15:56,629 --> 00:15:54,959
time and it could be like yeah i i you

428
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,639
know

429
00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:58,720
whether a precognitive dream whether it

430
00:16:03,030 --> 00:16:00,880
was whatever and like

431
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:03,040
you know an orb whatever i've heard so

432
00:16:06,069 --> 00:16:04,800
many different versions of the there was

433
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:06,079
this one time

434
00:16:10,710 --> 00:16:08,480
and i think part of it is that people

435
00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:10,720
our brains you know i mean there are so

436
00:16:14,949 --> 00:16:12,880
many there are so many angles within

437
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:14,959
science these days where people are

438
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:17,120
starting to recognize that like

439
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:20,240
our whole system is built on filtering

440
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:22,639
things out that are inconvenient you

441
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:25,040
know what i mean like we don't see the

442
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:27,440
full light spectrum like we don't hear

443
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:29,279
as well as a dog does you know what i

444
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:30,880
mean it's like there's there's so many

445
00:16:35,829 --> 00:16:34,079
filters set up to kind of excise

446
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:35,839
whatever we don't need

447
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:38,240
you know for survival or or thriving or

448
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:40,240
whatever right like

449
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:41,360
you know if we

450
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:44,880
if if we saw the the full light spectrum

451
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:46,160
you know maybe we would just be like

452
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:47,839
sitting on our couch feeling like we

453
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:50,240
were like tripping balls like 24 7. you

454
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:52,399
know what i mean

455
00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:54,720
um and and so in that way like maybe

456
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:56,480
that you know

457
00:17:01,590 --> 00:16:58,639
there are ways that that seems like an

458
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:01,600
evolutionary prerogative to keep that in

459
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:02,480
line

460
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:04,640
but there are also situations where

461
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:09,350
consciously or subconsciously you know

462
00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:11,760
there's often this thing with with et

463
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:13,120
experience and stuff like that where

464
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:14,880
it's like they wiped my memory and i

465
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:16,880
think that there's truth to that however

466
00:17:21,909 --> 00:17:20,240
i think i i've seen examples myself

467
00:17:24,549 --> 00:17:21,919
where people

468
00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:24,559
conveniently forgot things

469
00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:25,360
um

470
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:27,839
and it seems part of that is that the

471
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:31,200
brain really tries to make sense

472
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:35,039
of what we see around us it tries

473
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:38,640
like it's bent around order right

474
00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:41,280
and so like inconvenient

475
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:42,880
like anomalous

476
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:45,760
problematic situations like

477
00:17:49,909 --> 00:17:48,080
like there's it's almost as if there's

478
00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:49,919
like some evolutionary level where it's

479
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:52,320
just like filter it out filter it out

480
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:54,559
you know what i mean no i do

481
00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:56,960
no it don't make sense um and it's funny

482
00:18:01,830 --> 00:17:59,039
because this is not exactly what you're

483
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:01,840
talking about but in my family and and i

484
00:18:05,830 --> 00:18:04,080
don't i sometimes i forget this but my

485
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:05,840
mom knew i was interested in this she's

486
00:18:09,350 --> 00:18:07,440
gone now but she knew i was interested

487
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:09,360
in this and one day

488
00:18:12,549 --> 00:18:10,880
she said by the way

489
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:12,559
i did have this one experience where i

490
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:14,640
felt this presence in the room i was

491
00:18:19,270 --> 00:18:17,360
like you're telling me this now and i

492
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:19,280
regret so much i never pushed her and

493
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:20,880
got details more i don't think there

494
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:22,320
were many details or she didn't want to

495
00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:23,520
talk about it

496
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:26,400
but yeah it does make sense that it

497
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:28,720
could like you said maybe they're wiping

498
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:30,559
memories or

499
00:18:34,870 --> 00:18:32,160
there really is no need to wipe memory

500
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:34,880
because it's such a jarring experience

501
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:37,919
that we do it ourselves so yeah

502
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:39,120
yeah

503
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:41,200
and it very well could be both you know

504
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:43,840
it could be like it could almost be

505
00:18:48,549 --> 00:18:46,640
you know it could be overlapping and and

506
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:48,559
there could be like a convenience factor

507
00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:50,559
for them whoever they are

508
00:18:55,430 --> 00:18:53,200
in terms of like recognizing that there

509
00:18:58,230 --> 00:18:55,440
is this element within us where

510
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:58,240
that can sometimes happen but um that

511
00:19:01,990 --> 00:19:00,000
kind of brings up that kind of brings me

512
00:19:05,110 --> 00:19:02,000
to like the next

513
00:19:07,669 --> 00:19:05,120
like major series of events in my life

514
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:07,679
if if you want to go there um yes but

515
00:19:13,029 --> 00:19:11,200
but because that element of like of like

516
00:19:15,990 --> 00:19:13,039
conveniently forgetting things like kind

517
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:16,000
of plays into it so

518
00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:16,960
um

519
00:19:21,270 --> 00:19:18,880
outside of that one tiny little

520
00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:21,280
experience that that one like maybe like

521
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:23,120
45 second

522
00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:25,840
one minute long experience when i was

523
00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:27,280
that young

524
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:28,799
um

525
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:29,760
like

526
00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:32,080
you know flash forward to me

527
00:19:35,350 --> 00:19:32,960
at

528
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:35,360
about six six and a half years old

529
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:38,080
um my my parents moved from fort wayne

530
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:40,720
indiana to mishawaka indiana huge move

531
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:41,760
right

532
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:44,559
and like um and so um

533
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:47,760
but it was uh my parents were young um

534
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:50,640
my dad worked for um an electrical power

535
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:53,280
company and it's so we moved around a

536
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:55,200
lot at that time because

537
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:56,080
um

538
00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:57,679
he kept getting promoted and we'd have

539
00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:01,440
to move to a different um uh like town

540
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:04,080
for for the company that we work for

541
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:05,520
so um

542
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:07,679
so there we we are in mishawaka it was

543
00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:11,600
an older home built in like 1919 and

544
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:14,000
it was like way way bigger than the

545
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:16,400
house in fort wayne and

546
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:18,799
and i was kind of overwhelmed with it at

547
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:21,280
first and you know of course like it's

548
00:20:25,029 --> 00:20:23,120
like kid brain i've gone and looked at

549
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:25,039
it on zillow and it you know it doesn't

550
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:27,360
seem so grand now but it sure did at

551
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:29,679
that point you know what i mean and

552
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:30,559
and

553
00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:31,679
so

554
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:36,080
i um the very first night and i think

555
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:38,080
you've heard um

556
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:40,559
like a recording of of my mom

557
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,360
corroborating this experience yes

558
00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:45,360
it's so important to me to have somebody

559
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:47,440
and i wish a lot of people i think

560
00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:48,480
thought you were just going to come on

561
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:49,360
here and just talk about your

562
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:50,480
experiences and not have any

563
00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:52,720
corroborating witnesses but your mom

564
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:55,520
is so important so yeah definitely

565
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:56,880
when i heard that i didn't expect that

566
00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:58,320
when i was listening i'm like oh this is

567
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:00,000
great i didn't know that your mom there

568
00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:03,120
was there were other witnesses yeah and

569
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:04,960
i mean it's not just her they're like

570
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:06,960
like i

571
00:21:10,630 --> 00:21:09,520
i um like friends

572
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:10,640
partners

573
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:12,320
like my current partner

574
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:15,120
um exes you know like there's a there's

575
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:17,120
a long history of that and

576
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:18,799
you may have even heard me talk about

577
00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:21,600
like losing a couple friends over them

578
00:21:23,750 --> 00:21:22,480
kind of

579
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:23,760
over them

580
00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:26,640
having um a shared experience with me

581
00:21:30,549 --> 00:21:28,880
and just being too freaked out and um

582
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:30,559
but we can talk about that later yeah so

583
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:32,720
anyway yeah there's like it's it's it's

584
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:35,679
kind of a deep well of of shared

585
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:37,600
experience with people that don't even

586
00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:39,840
know each other just like through the

587
00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:43,280
history of my life which is um

588
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:45,600
it's not totally unique you know that

589
00:21:48,789 --> 00:21:47,760
does happen um

590
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:48,799
but um

591
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:50,720
but it does

592
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:51,919
it helps me

593
00:21:55,909 --> 00:21:53,919
you know what i mean in terms of like

594
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:55,919
even from that age with the haunted

595
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:56,960
house

596
00:22:00,630 --> 00:21:58,720
and the kind of like

597
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:00,640
uh it's just so helpful when somebody

598
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:03,200
else can can be like yeah that happened

599
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:05,760
you know what i mean even in that moment

600
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:07,679
and especially now it's convenient now

601
00:22:11,669 --> 00:22:09,840
but at the moment like

602
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:11,679
wow right so

603
00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:13,520
okay so um

604
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:15,280
we're moving into this house the the

605
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:17,919
very first night um

606
00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:21,600
uh moving trucks come in and my my dad's

607
00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:23,440
like my dad's an engineer and so all

608
00:22:27,909 --> 00:22:25,679
these textbooks all these book boxes

609
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:27,919
from from like his old college textbooks

610
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:30,000
and stuff like this engineering manuals

611
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:31,760
things like this like

612
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:35,039
they're they were used at the end of the

613
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:38,400
moving truck to kind of pin in the

614
00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:40,799
our bedding you know like the beds you

615
00:22:45,029 --> 00:22:42,640
know mattresses so they don't

616
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:45,039
fly around everywhere right so uh the

617
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:47,200
movers use the you know like hand trucks

618
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:50,880
to to to get these like massive heavy

619
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:52,720
book boxes they put them down in the

620
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:54,720
basement right

621
00:23:00,710 --> 00:22:55,840
and

622
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:00,720
them off so we're talking like five six

623
00:23:04,390 --> 00:23:03,200
high you know pillars of these book

624
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:04,400
boxes

625
00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:06,400
go to bed in the morning

626
00:23:12,149 --> 00:23:09,760
wake up and my mom is kind of freaking

627
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:12,159
out in the basement right

628
00:23:14,549 --> 00:23:13,360
and

629
00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:14,559
uh

630
00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:16,960
the thing was is that that like the

631
00:23:21,909 --> 00:23:19,679
boxes that had been stacked in pillars

632
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:21,919
like late the night before had been laid

633
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:24,240
out in like a checkerboard pattern

634
00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:26,880
like like evenly spaced

635
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:29,679
across the basement and

636
00:23:33,669 --> 00:23:31,440
and you know of course like immediately

637
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:33,679
as it's like is somebody messing with us

638
00:23:38,789 --> 00:23:36,640
like you know that's a really weird

639
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:38,799
you know eccentric way to mess with

640
00:23:42,870 --> 00:23:41,120
somebody you know if that was

641
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:42,880
the burglar just wanted to play a little

642
00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:44,320
game and yeah i heard you in the other

643
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:45,760
interview when you guys were joking it's

644
00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:48,720
like let's break in and create a

645
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:50,720
checkerboard pattern just to mess with

646
00:23:53,669 --> 00:23:51,679
them

647
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:53,679
right what a weird way to so like you

648
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:55,440
know there's there's it went back and

649
00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:56,720
forth and then

650
00:24:01,350 --> 00:24:00,080
later in the move-in process

651
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:01,360
you know my mom didn't know what to

652
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:03,360
think about that and but then later in

653
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:05,360
the move-in process

654
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:07,200
she walks in through the back door into

655
00:24:10,950 --> 00:24:08,640
the kitchen and

656
00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:10,960
the oven door is open and it's like

657
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:14,320
turned on blazing hot and immediately

658
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:16,559
like as she put it like her brain like

659
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:18,400
just like flipped over immediately

660
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:21,039
like before that she had no context she

661
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:23,840
she had no history of ghost anything

662
00:24:28,549 --> 00:24:25,760
poltergeist anything

663
00:24:30,230 --> 00:24:28,559
and like there was like as she describes

664
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:30,240
it there's kind of like a deep knowing

665
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:32,320
all of a sudden where i was just like

666
00:24:36,870 --> 00:24:34,480
and she like literally said out loud

667
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:36,880
like this is my house now and you can't

668
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:38,080
do this

669
00:24:42,470 --> 00:24:40,799
you know and and like she just went from

670
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:42,480
like not even

671
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:45,120
entertaining those ideas

672
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:46,400
to being like

673
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:48,480
i have to declare that this is my place

674
00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:49,679
you know what i mean

675
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:52,480
and um and that kind of like that um

676
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:54,400
those are early experiences but that was

677
00:24:58,950 --> 00:24:57,039
a very like stuff like that was a very

678
00:24:59,750 --> 00:24:58,960
regular occurrence there

679
00:25:01,830 --> 00:24:59,760
um

680
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:01,840
it was uh you know things would move

681
00:25:05,029 --> 00:25:04,240
around a lot um things would kind of

682
00:25:07,110 --> 00:25:05,039
like

683
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:07,120
uh

684
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:09,120
bowls and cups and stuff like that i'd

685
00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:10,960
be like watching cartoons and something

686
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:13,679
would like shove over like 18 inches you

687
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:15,600
know like just like right in front of me

688
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:18,080
very obviously

689
00:25:21,350 --> 00:25:19,440
you're sitting there what do you do when

690
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:21,360
that happens just just oh cool and then

691
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:22,320
just keep

692
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:24,000
eating your cereal

693
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:26,640
it was it it i mean of course it bugged

694
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,720
me out but like the weirdest thing was

695
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:30,480
that like

696
00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:32,159
you know like

697
00:25:35,269 --> 00:25:33,840
there was the idea at that point there

698
00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:35,279
was kind of like the idea that there was

699
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:37,279
a ghost around but like i hadn't seen

700
00:25:42,789 --> 00:25:40,240
that movie poltergeist right and like

701
00:25:45,029 --> 00:25:42,799
and like um and the thing was is that

702
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:45,039
most of the context as a kid for me with

703
00:25:48,549 --> 00:25:46,799
like ghosts and stuff like that it was

704
00:25:51,269 --> 00:25:48,559
more like scooby-doo or something you

705
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:51,279
know what i mean like some iridescent

706
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:52,880
something that looks like a dude in a

707
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:56,159
sheet or whatever and so like like part

708
00:26:00,870 --> 00:25:58,480
of the fear for me was not like what was

709
00:26:01,990 --> 00:26:00,880
happening in front of me but but but

710
00:26:03,990 --> 00:26:02,000
that like

711
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:04,000
the four channels on television that

712
00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:06,880
existed back then like um like weren't

713
00:26:10,549 --> 00:26:08,480
really covering it do you know what i

714
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:10,559
mean right or they weren't in a way that

715
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:13,760
i that in a way that i saw so like so

716
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:16,720
like from a cultural context like i

717
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:18,880
couldn't square it away that's what

718
00:26:22,710 --> 00:26:20,480
freaked me out like the actual thing

719
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:22,720
itself i was like oh that's weird

720
00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:24,880
but when you're that young like

721
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:26,640
yeah it's scary but at the same time

722
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:28,240
it's like

723
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:29,440
you're still

724
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:31,600
learning about the world around you you

725
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:33,760
know what i mean and so it's like you

726
00:26:38,230 --> 00:26:35,600
you know when you're super young like

727
00:26:40,149 --> 00:26:38,240
you know you encounter maybe snow for

728
00:26:41,909 --> 00:26:40,159
the first time or

729
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:41,919
you know like you ride a bike for the

730
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:43,440
first time there's all these like new

731
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:45,520
experiences and and you're just taking

732
00:26:48,310 --> 00:26:47,120
it in and so

733
00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:48,320
i think on

734
00:26:53,590 --> 00:26:51,279
on one level like maybe

735
00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:53,600
you know maybe that's

736
00:26:58,710 --> 00:26:56,240
the convenience of that like like that

737
00:26:59,909 --> 00:26:58,720
that happened so early

738
00:27:02,390 --> 00:26:59,919
maybe that

739
00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:02,400
maybe there's a difference there for for

740
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:04,640
some experiencers where it's just like

741
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:05,679
that

742
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:11,039
it stops getting filtered out or like

743
00:27:17,110 --> 00:27:14,799
there's or there's some kind of

744
00:27:19,350 --> 00:27:17,120
the filter is wider i don't know i i

745
00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:19,360
don't know why did you have

746
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:20,720
did you have discussions with with your

747
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:22,799
parents about it at the time

748
00:27:28,149 --> 00:27:26,159
yeah yeah i mean a bit with my mom like

749
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:28,159
they had bigger they had bigger issues

750
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:30,000
though at the time like they they got

751
00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:31,840
divorced in that house

752
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:35,520
um you know um they were having marital

753
00:27:40,789 --> 00:27:39,120
problems at the time and um

754
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:40,799
and so and you know they were young

755
00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:43,039
parents and and there's me and there's

756
00:27:50,389 --> 00:27:46,000
like my 18 month old sister

757
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:50,399
and so i think that you know like like

758
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:53,600
you know amazingly weirdly like

759
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:55,279
the poltergeist phenomena in the house

760
00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:57,120
was probably like

761
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:58,480
you know

762
00:28:02,549 --> 00:28:00,559
maybe number five or number six on their

763
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:02,559
list of issues for like what

764
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:04,399
like what they felt like they were they

765
00:28:08,149 --> 00:28:06,559
were juggling at that particular moment

766
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:08,159
which is wild to

767
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:10,720
to consider you know yeah yeah but but

768
00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:12,960
that's how life is you know

769
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:15,039
you know i think i think one thing it's

770
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:17,440
it's funny sometimes when i hear when i

771
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:18,720
when i

772
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:23,520
almost like critical or skeptical

773
00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:25,600
rebuttals of things and people are like

774
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:27,039
why didn't you why don't you know

775
00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:29,520
exactly the day that that happened or

776
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:31,679
what like why don't and it's like a lot

777
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:34,000
of times like these are situations that

778
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:35,760
people don't recognize that a lot of

779
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:39,360
times people want to forget these things

780
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:41,919
they don't it's not it's not like

781
00:28:45,029 --> 00:28:43,039
you don't

782
00:28:47,350 --> 00:28:45,039
walk into a situation like that and

783
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:47,360
automatically become like like a

784
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,320
cataloging enthusiast of like these

785
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:52,720
these like weird sometimes scary

786
00:28:55,510 --> 00:28:54,559
sometimes traumatic events you know what

787
00:28:56,389 --> 00:28:55,520
i mean

788
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:56,399
um

789
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,840
and so you know no exactly exactly

790
00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:01,440
because like i said my experiences i had

791
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:02,799
with you know i had a couple of

792
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:04,960
precognitive dreams when i was in like

793
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:06,399
eighth or ninth grade i didn't write

794
00:29:11,269 --> 00:29:09,279
them down if you asked me i even have i

795
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:11,279
even have trouble remembering exactly

796
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,440
when it was when it happened

797
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:15,440
i i dreamt that my this girl had a crush

798
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:17,039
on that her mom died

799
00:29:20,070 --> 00:29:18,640
and the next day i go in and she was out

800
00:29:21,510 --> 00:29:20,080
and day after she comes in she goes

801
00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:21,520
where like why were you out she's like

802
00:29:26,230 --> 00:29:24,159
my mom died but at the time i didn't i

803
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:26,240
didn't think oh my god i can't believe i

804
00:29:29,590 --> 00:29:28,240
dreamed that i didn't think of that you

805
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:29,600
know and i didn't write it down or

806
00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:31,120
anything but the years later i'm like

807
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:32,960
you know that wasn't that wasn't it

808
00:29:36,389 --> 00:29:35,440
really wasn't normal you know so yeah i

809
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:36,399
can

810
00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:38,080
i understand yeah

811
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:42,640
yeah and um and my dad like um

812
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:44,399
and you know like

813
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:46,559
basically you know this is again when

814
00:29:51,110 --> 00:29:48,640
i'm pretty young and so

815
00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:51,120
i think i have a lot more clarity about

816
00:29:56,470 --> 00:29:53,600
experiences that happened more recently

817
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:56,480
and so this like like these memories

818
00:30:03,430 --> 00:29:58,880
from that age are relatively fragmentary

819
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:03,440
and like i i don't want to kind of like

820
00:30:06,310 --> 00:30:04,559
you know

821
00:30:07,669 --> 00:30:06,320
like add too much window dressing to

822
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:07,679
like what i can remember from

823
00:30:12,389 --> 00:30:10,080
fragmentary experiment experience but

824
00:30:15,990 --> 00:30:12,399
like my father was

825
00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:16,000
troubled but he was not

826
00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:18,640
willing to really entertain

827
00:30:25,269 --> 00:30:23,990
he was like i mean i think my dad was

828
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:25,279
going through a lot of the time he's

829
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:27,520
kind of like losing his grip on like the

830
00:30:31,909 --> 00:30:29,840
family dynamic like like the marriage

831
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:31,919
was falling apart stuff like that

832
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:32,960
so like

833
00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:35,679
you know and he was also you know an

834
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:37,440
electrical engineer and he was not like

835
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:39,520
a very you know

836
00:30:44,789 --> 00:30:40,960
um

837
00:31:03,190 --> 00:30:44,799
i

838
00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:03,200
um

839
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:06,559
and it never getting figured out right

840
00:31:10,789 --> 00:31:08,399
but that's kind of at that time that was

841
00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:10,799
as far as he was willing to to

842
00:31:14,470 --> 00:31:12,080
go

843
00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:14,480
much later like when i was in my early

844
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:17,279
30s um it was just him and me hanging

845
00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:19,360
out one night and you know

846
00:31:24,149 --> 00:31:20,480
and it was

847
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:24,159
brief thing but he kind of turned to me

848
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:26,159
and was like you know like i was wrong

849
00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:26,880
to

850
00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:30,320
not

851
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:32,559
i was wrong to to deny the stuff that

852
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:33,840
was happening there

853
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:35,440
you know like i should like i should

854
00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:36,720
have listened more

855
00:31:40,630 --> 00:31:38,720
i should have like

856
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:40,640
and and he didn't go into a lot of

857
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:42,159
detail and it's just like a couple

858
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:44,000
sentences and

859
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:46,080
that was the most that i ever got it out

860
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:47,840
of him about it

861
00:31:51,669 --> 00:31:50,240
to this day my mom's much more willing

862
00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:51,679
to to

863
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:56,320
about it but it wasn't you know it was

864
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:58,480
it was that there was also like

865
00:32:03,909 --> 00:32:00,240
weird shadows would appear in the house

866
00:32:05,430 --> 00:32:03,919
sometimes like along the walls that

867
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:05,440
um

868
00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:06,720
that were

869
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:07,600
uh

870
00:32:11,110 --> 00:32:09,360
like what people might term as like

871
00:32:18,310 --> 00:32:11,120
shadow beings or something like that

872
00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:20,070
kind of disturbingly

873
00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:22,159
like elongated forms that would just

874
00:32:32,789 --> 00:32:29,750
i'm not sure if my mom saw those but i

875
00:32:35,350 --> 00:32:32,799
like you'd have to ask her um i did you

876
00:32:37,830 --> 00:32:35,360
know one thing that my mom does

877
00:32:40,149 --> 00:32:37,840
one thing that my mom like filtered out

878
00:32:41,909 --> 00:32:40,159
and then she recalled even just in the

879
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:41,919
last couple years i was like mom but

880
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:42,799
like i

881
00:32:46,149 --> 00:32:44,559
you remember things moving around more

882
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:46,159
on the tables and stuff and she was like

883
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:48,000
not a lot and i was like this is

884
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:49,679
something that happened like

885
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:52,080
every week around like it seemed like it

886
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:54,240
happened you know every week around me

887
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:56,880
and she was like actually you know what

888
00:33:01,990 --> 00:32:59,279
i don't know why i

889
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:02,000
didn't remember this before but

890
00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:04,799
yeah i remember like like

891
00:33:08,549 --> 00:33:06,640
notable times where i'd reach for the

892
00:33:09,750 --> 00:33:08,559
car keys and they would shoot across the

893
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:09,760
table

894
00:33:16,710 --> 00:33:10,480
like

895
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:16,720
didn't i remember that

896
00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:18,480
like what was that about you know what i

897
00:33:20,710 --> 00:33:19,679
mean

898
00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:20,720
and

899
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:21,919
so

900
00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:22,960
um

901
00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:25,440
yeah so i mean she even she allows that

902
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:27,120
there's that there are probably things

903
00:33:31,590 --> 00:33:28,399
that like

904
00:33:33,909 --> 00:33:31,600
she didn't want to be kind of um or like

905
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:33,919
on some level maybe subconsciously where

906
00:33:39,029 --> 00:33:34,720
where

907
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:39,039
some of it might even come back later

908
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:41,360
you know what i mean but um say i'm

909
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:42,960
gonna interrupt your question because

910
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:44,720
it's relevant because it is really

911
00:33:48,149 --> 00:33:46,159
impressive

912
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:48,159
how do you remain so grounded that's

913
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:49,840
what impresses me about you when i first

914
00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:51,360
had the uh when sean and i were on the

915
00:33:54,870 --> 00:33:52,480
other day

916
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:54,880
oh i i appreciate that and i appreciate

917
00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:56,720
that john thanks um

918
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:59,279
uh you know like it this wasn't always

919
00:34:02,070 --> 00:34:00,240
the case

920
00:34:05,029 --> 00:34:02,080
like to be completely honest with you

921
00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:05,039
like this has been a long process um

922
00:34:09,030 --> 00:34:07,519
you know i'm 42 years old even like five

923
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:09,040
years ago like

924
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,000
like i had a really hard time engaging

925
00:34:16,230 --> 00:34:14,240
with these topics and like

926
00:34:18,310 --> 00:34:16,240
even just seeing like

927
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:18,320
you know like

928
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:21,919
uh ufology related programming on tv

929
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:24,879
would like would kind of like i i would

930
00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:26,800
avoid it you know flip right through it

931
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:28,320
like it was like

932
00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:29,679
i had

933
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:32,720
a time in my 20s when like i was kind of

934
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:36,560
at the height of of regular experience

935
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:37,440
and

936
00:34:42,550 --> 00:34:41,520
phase where i was researching as much as

937
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:42,560
i could

938
00:34:46,389 --> 00:34:44,240
and then and then i went through a

939
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:46,399
period of a lot of years where like i

940
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:48,879
tried to shut it off any way that i

941
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:49,760
could

942
00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:50,639
and

943
00:34:57,829 --> 00:34:55,760
like

944
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:57,839
each of those stages through my 20s and

945
00:35:02,069 --> 00:34:59,599
30s where i was trying to engage with it

946
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:02,079
and i was trying to pull away from it um

947
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:05,280
neither worked at the time you know like

948
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:06,640
and

949
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:10,480
it became a process of of

950
00:35:15,430 --> 00:35:13,040
honestly i think like the biggest thing

951
00:35:16,870 --> 00:35:15,440
for me um

952
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:16,880
was

953
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:19,680
um meditation actually

954
00:35:25,829 --> 00:35:23,040
like um like i started meditating about

955
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:25,839
five and a half six years ago or so

956
00:35:31,829 --> 00:35:29,119
and um and being able to kind of like

957
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:31,839
like just kind of zero out my brain

958
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:34,640
in the morning and or at night

959
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:35,520
um

960
00:35:39,829 --> 00:35:37,920
it really did a lot for me any specific

961
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:39,839
type of meditation

962
00:35:44,470 --> 00:35:40,640
um

963
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:44,480
uh well uh a couple but like i mean the

964
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:46,560
thing that really like

965
00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:48,720
worked at first is ju is really the

966
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:51,040
zeroing out like the zen like like kind

967
00:35:55,510 --> 00:35:51,920
of

968
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:55,520
where it's just like you really just

969
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:56,720
kind of like

970
00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:00,000
focus on your breath and

971
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:02,800
don't envision anything like not even

972
00:36:07,270 --> 00:36:05,520
necessarily a mantra just like just any

973
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:07,280
time like a thought starts to kind of

974
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:09,680
bubble up we just kind of like try to

975
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:12,160
acknowledge that it happened and like

976
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:14,320
and like get it to go away and kind of

977
00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:16,640
like get back to zero

978
00:36:19,589 --> 00:36:17,920
that was like

979
00:36:21,190 --> 00:36:19,599
i mean i've i've done other forms of

980
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:21,200
meditation but that that was really

981
00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:23,200
helpful in terms of like

982
00:36:27,589 --> 00:36:25,440
um

983
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:27,599
really my sanity to be honest with you

984
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:28,800
like like

985
00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:30,880
and and and

986
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:33,280
and being able to start to process

987
00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:35,040
things on a different way

988
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:36,079
um

989
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:39,440
that and

990
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:41,440
you know like over the course of the

991
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:43,760
last couple years i mean i i wouldn't be

992
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:46,160
able to be here with you right now even

993
00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:48,079
two years ago this would have been like

994
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:50,160
absolutely impossible for me to do even

995
00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:52,079
a year ago this would have been

996
00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:54,560
impossible for me to do i think when did

997
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:55,760
you first go

998
00:36:58,870 --> 00:36:57,040
go public

999
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,880
telling your story

1000
00:37:04,230 --> 00:36:59,920
friday

1001
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:04,240
so that was like yeah

1002
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:06,640
yeah and so like like literally like i

1003
00:37:10,069 --> 00:37:08,160
mean you know i co-founded the

1004
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:10,079
experiencer group with stuart davis and

1005
00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:11,920
kirsten blackburn and and part of the

1006
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:12,960
whole

1007
00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:14,880
the structure there is that like like

1008
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:16,720
experiencers can get together in a

1009
00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:19,280
private situation a private member site

1010
00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:20,960
they can compare notes they can talk

1011
00:37:26,710 --> 00:37:23,520
like you know whatever and and it can be

1012
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:26,720
private and like and like part and like

1013
00:37:29,349 --> 00:37:28,560
part of the motivation there is that

1014
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:29,359
like

1015
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:34,560
think a lot of experiencers needed that

1016
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:37,359
and it didn't exist and like you know

1017
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:40,320
like i needed that in my 20s and it

1018
00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:42,640
didn't happen like eventually it took a

1019
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:45,760
long time but i figured like okay well i

1020
00:37:49,589 --> 00:37:48,400
get it like like if like if we're going

1021
00:37:51,430 --> 00:37:49,599
to be the people to do it then we're

1022
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:51,440
going to be the people to do it and it's

1023
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:54,560
not like the only anonymous or quiet or

1024
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:57,520
private experience or group but but it's

1025
00:38:01,750 --> 00:37:59,680
you know we there's

1026
00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:01,760
there's a lot on that site that that

1027
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:03,520
people are finding helpful and i

1028
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:06,160
appreciate that but like i if it wasn't

1029
00:38:08,470 --> 00:38:07,680
also for

1030
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:08,480
for

1031
00:38:13,270 --> 00:38:11,680
working with other experiencers and

1032
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:13,280
support groups and things like that i

1033
00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:15,119
wouldn't be able to be as grounded and i

1034
00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:17,040
wouldn't be able to talk about it like i

1035
00:38:21,430 --> 00:38:19,200
am with you right now and because

1036
00:38:23,829 --> 00:38:21,440
partially like being able to corroborate

1037
00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:23,839
things with like your loved ones is one

1038
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:25,200
thing but like when you're able to

1039
00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:27,200
corroborate like weird details about

1040
00:38:30,950 --> 00:38:28,880
some of this stuff with somebody that

1041
00:38:33,349 --> 00:38:30,960
lives on the other side of the world

1042
00:38:35,109 --> 00:38:33,359
you know like like that's really special

1043
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:35,119
and like and you're like

1044
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:37,920
like you know what i mean like really

1045
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:41,920
obscure details like you know like tools

1046
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:44,400
or like like straight or like the kind

1047
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:46,880
of like clothing something like a being

1048
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:48,480
might wear or whatever you know there's

1049
00:38:51,910 --> 00:38:50,000
all sorts of situations like this where

1050
00:38:53,349 --> 00:38:51,920
it's just like oh wow

1051
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:53,359
and um

1052
00:38:56,790 --> 00:38:54,960
and so

1053
00:38:59,109 --> 00:38:56,800
you know it's partially through that as

1054
00:39:03,109 --> 00:38:59,119
well that that i i

1055
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:03,119
i started to realize that i could be

1056
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:05,359
um

1057
00:39:08,470 --> 00:39:07,760
that it was needed to have people that

1058
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:08,480
could

1059
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:12,400
situation where it's like why aren't

1060
00:39:15,270 --> 00:39:13,520
more

1061
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:15,280
you know like i know from behind the

1062
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:17,040
scenes there there are

1063
00:39:20,950 --> 00:39:18,400
there are like

1064
00:39:23,430 --> 00:39:20,960
you know people that run like huge

1065
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:23,440
companies that that are experienced you

1066
00:39:26,230 --> 00:39:25,040
know there are there are like a lot

1067
00:39:28,390 --> 00:39:26,240
there are

1068
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:28,400
really high functioning

1069
00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:31,040
brilliant people you know that that are

1070
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:33,200
in this situation and that is yeah and

1071
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,880
that's yeah that's so important i mean

1072
00:39:38,069 --> 00:39:36,720
we've heard it through bud hopkins and

1073
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:38,079
john mack and

1074
00:39:40,829 --> 00:39:40,000
david jacobs but they will never name

1075
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:40,839
them

1076
00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:42,640
obviously um

1077
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:44,480
it would be huge if one of those

1078
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:46,880
one of those whether it's a scientist

1079
00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:48,000
um

1080
00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:49,440
you know somebody like you said it runs

1081
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:51,200
a big company it would be so important

1082
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:53,680
for that that hopefully one day it will

1083
00:39:59,109 --> 00:39:57,359
yeah and so you know and and and and so

1084
00:40:01,510 --> 00:39:59,119
again it turned into a thing where it's

1085
00:40:03,349 --> 00:40:01,520
like i mean we're kind of i don't want

1086
00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:03,359
to put the card before the horse but you

1087
00:40:06,790 --> 00:40:05,440
know like that's why

1088
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:06,800
you know i

1089
00:40:22,470 --> 00:40:07,680
i

1090
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:22,480
you know

1091
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:28,240
helene like broke the atep story you

1092
00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:30,000
know like that guy you know the pulitzer

1093
00:40:32,309 --> 00:40:31,359
prize

1094
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:32,319
winning

1095
00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:34,240
like like you know bureau chief of the

1096
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:36,400
new york times wants to do it and i and

1097
00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:37,760
of course the article was going to be

1098
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:39,839
for the times and i was like you know if

1099
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:42,079
i'm ever going to do this

1100
00:40:46,390 --> 00:40:43,920
if i'm ever going to

1101
00:40:50,630 --> 00:40:46,400
come out as an experiencer

1102
00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:50,640
of abductions of non-human entities like

1103
00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:51,680
like

1104
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:53,839
this is exactly the context to do it

1105
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:56,160
like who uh like john max gone there's

1106
00:41:00,309 --> 00:40:58,560
like like there are only a few people

1107
00:41:02,230 --> 00:41:00,319
that it's like

1108
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:02,240
that

1109
00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:07,359
and help and and kind of contextualize

1110
00:41:11,109 --> 00:41:09,680
things as as well as somebody like ralph

1111
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:11,119
good

1112
00:41:14,470 --> 00:41:13,040
yeah i had i had no idea until you

1113
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:14,480
brought it up the other day how close it

1114
00:41:19,109 --> 00:41:17,520
was to being in the new york times and

1115
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:19,119
yeah i mean we could talk about it now

1116
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:20,640
and get back to your experiences i mean

1117
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:22,079
how was

1118
00:41:26,470 --> 00:41:24,720
when you found out that it was

1119
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:26,480
i mean were you ever told that it was

1120
00:41:30,550 --> 00:41:28,160
basically a done deal and you were just

1121
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:30,560
waiting or was it still was ralph always

1122
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:32,000
saying you know

1123
00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:33,680
it's not done until it's not over until

1124
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:35,839
it's over because i know it got pulled

1125
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:38,160
pretty close to the publication date

1126
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:40,560
which is just so disappointing to me

1127
00:41:44,790 --> 00:41:42,480
yeah the first time

1128
00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:44,800
like it was originally

1129
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:47,119
it um

1130
00:41:53,109 --> 00:41:50,160
and ralph was always careful to kind of

1131
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:53,119
be like you know like like

1132
00:41:57,510 --> 00:41:55,200
like things could change at the last

1133
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:57,520
minute but

1134
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:58,480
you know

1135
00:42:01,510 --> 00:41:59,680
and so

1136
00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:01,520
and you know he like he's a very

1137
00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:03,760
seasoned reporter he he worked for the

1138
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:06,560
new york times uh like as a daily

1139
00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:08,960
uh reporter and bureau chief for 45

1140
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:10,480
years so

1141
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:12,480
that kind of conditional language

1142
00:42:16,309 --> 00:42:14,880
but he was very con like he felt he

1143
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:16,319
seemed pretty confident about the whole

1144
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:20,560
thing and like you know and he and um i

1145
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:22,640
wouldn't you know i like

1146
00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:24,800
private emails and stuff like that i i

1147
00:42:29,109 --> 00:42:26,800
wouldn't want to quote but like

1148
00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:29,119
you know it really looked like it was

1149
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:33,359
going to run in the the sunday edition

1150
00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:36,319
of the new york times on the 4th of july

1151
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:39,760
and like a big article like and you know

1152
00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:41,440
and and it was actually kind of bigger

1153
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:43,520
than it actually ran in the debrief

1154
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:45,119
because like the new york times they're

1155
00:42:49,750 --> 00:42:47,440
like they did like they did photos with

1156
00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:49,760
everybody like i had i had a

1157
00:42:55,109 --> 00:42:52,560
photographer from the times like here

1158
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:55,119
you know like for a day like here and

1159
00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:57,040
like nearby in my neighborhood and

1160
00:42:59,589 --> 00:42:58,720
things like that and

1161
00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:59,599
and

1162
00:43:02,470 --> 00:43:00,480
um

1163
00:43:05,510 --> 00:43:02,480
and there was one other experiencer that

1164
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:05,520
was involved earlier and um dropped out

1165
00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:06,400
because

1166
00:43:10,150 --> 00:43:09,200
she like after the new york times

1167
00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:10,160
um

1168
00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:13,040
uh situation you know in terms of them

1169
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:15,440
like like not wanting to run it

1170
00:43:20,309 --> 00:43:16,560
um

1171
00:43:25,190 --> 00:43:22,630
i don't want to speculate about why why

1172
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:25,200
why she changed her mind but but um

1173
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:27,359
so you know like so

1174
00:43:32,309 --> 00:43:29,760
like the way that it was kind of like

1175
00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:32,319
that ralph was really intending it i was

1176
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:34,160
it was like wow this is this could

1177
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:35,280
really

1178
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:39,200
change the conversation and like we're

1179
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:41,359
still having a conversation which i

1180
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:43,680
deeply value like i'm so glad that

1181
00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:46,240
debrief published it i'm glad that tim

1182
00:43:50,790 --> 00:43:48,240
jumped on it i'm glad that this is

1183
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:50,800
happening and i'm also and i'm also

1184
00:43:55,589 --> 00:43:52,720
appreciative that part of the

1185
00:43:58,309 --> 00:43:55,599
conversation is that the times wouldn't

1186
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:58,319
run it and that like and more

1187
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:00,400
specifically that like there's still

1188
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:03,040
this underdog status and there's there's

1189
00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:04,800
still the stigma and

1190
00:44:09,430 --> 00:44:07,200
and like it's time to

1191
00:44:11,750 --> 00:44:09,440
contextualize this stuff it's time to

1192
00:44:13,030 --> 00:44:11,760
stop acting like

1193
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:13,040
they just stare at the tops of our

1194
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:15,520
houses and fly away or whatever like you

1195
00:44:18,230 --> 00:44:16,880
brought that up yeah you brought it up

1196
00:44:19,349 --> 00:44:18,240
the other day and it was really funny

1197
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:19,359
you're like

1198
00:44:22,230 --> 00:44:20,800
what do people think they're doing and i

1199
00:44:23,430 --> 00:44:22,240
have the i have this discussion all the

1200
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:23,440
time it's like

1201
00:44:28,550 --> 00:44:26,160
why would you not think about

1202
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:28,560
abductions experiences when you know if

1203
00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:29,760
you believe there are people in this

1204
00:44:34,309 --> 00:44:32,560
community who believe that ufos are here

1205
00:44:36,069 --> 00:44:34,319
we don't know what they are obviously

1206
00:44:37,589 --> 00:44:36,079
the next logical step is what are they

1207
00:44:40,230 --> 00:44:37,599
doing and you're like well they're not

1208
00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:40,240
they're not shingling houses you know

1209
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:42,240
they're not here to like renovate houses

1210
00:44:45,829 --> 00:44:43,440
in the middle of the night and you wake

1211
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:45,839
up like oh who did that um

1212
00:44:49,510 --> 00:44:48,079
then again they are taking your boxes

1213
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:49,520
and putting them into a checkerboard

1214
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:51,520
pattern so who the hell knows

1215
00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:53,520
or somebody is yeah

1216
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:01,109
so um but ralph you know so how long was

1217
00:45:07,510 --> 00:45:03,040
that in the process from the beginning

1218
00:45:09,510 --> 00:45:07,520
until the fourth of july and do you know

1219
00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:09,520
how how did he how did he choose do you

1220
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:11,680
have any idea how they chose um

1221
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:13,200
who to put in the article like how did

1222
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:14,640
he find people

1223
00:45:20,309 --> 00:45:16,880
um well um

1224
00:45:22,950 --> 00:45:20,319
okay so the like ralph

1225
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:22,960
started talking to people

1226
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:25,839
talking to specific experiencers

1227
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:27,040
uh

1228
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:28,800
towards the it was like near the

1229
00:45:32,470 --> 00:45:30,720
beginning of april

1230
00:45:34,309 --> 00:45:32,480
all right so this is so this has been

1231
00:45:36,390 --> 00:45:34,319
kind of like a one and like he was

1232
00:45:37,589 --> 00:45:36,400
already working on the article you know

1233
00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:37,599
he had

1234
00:45:42,390 --> 00:45:40,160
yeah like he um and i think part of the

1235
00:45:44,630 --> 00:45:42,400
impetus of that is that he

1236
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:44,640
like you know he wrote this biography

1237
00:45:49,270 --> 00:45:47,680
the believer uh a biography on john mack

1238
00:45:51,270 --> 00:45:49,280
that came out in march

1239
00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:51,280
and so i think that he was he was kind

1240
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:54,480
of like and very much in that headspace

1241
00:45:58,950 --> 00:45:56,160
of of

1242
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:58,960
like he had he had had access to to john

1243
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:01,040
max archive

1244
00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:03,839
like of of experiencer cases and things

1245
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:05,359
like that and he'd been working with

1246
00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:06,240
that

1247
00:46:11,109 --> 00:46:08,400
for 16 years

1248
00:46:13,349 --> 00:46:11,119
16 years he'd been working on that

1249
00:46:15,109 --> 00:46:13,359
and so like you know and that's that's

1250
00:46:17,109 --> 00:46:15,119
how like as i mentioned the other day

1251
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:17,119
that's how he and leslie kane got

1252
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:19,599
together initially because leslie kane

1253
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:22,560
was was uh but hopkins companion for

1254
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:24,240
right for a number of years

1255
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:26,240
until bud died and

1256
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:28,800
and so you know they like

1257
00:46:32,470 --> 00:46:30,640
you know she she had reported for the

1258
00:46:35,589 --> 00:46:32,480
boston globe he had reported for the new

1259
00:46:37,829 --> 00:46:35,599
york times and they got together over

1260
00:46:39,829 --> 00:46:37,839
you know like literally abduction

1261
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:39,839
experiencer cases you know that was like

1262
00:46:44,550 --> 00:46:42,720
part of the like a huge part of them

1263
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:44,560
initially coming together

1264
00:46:49,510 --> 00:46:46,640
and people don't recognize that and like

1265
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:49,520
of course and it makes sense that that

1266
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:50,880
that would be something that you would

1267
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:53,119
kind of like be quiet about because

1268
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:55,200
you know like

1269
00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:56,400
because of of

1270
00:47:00,069 --> 00:46:57,680
like

1271
00:47:02,630 --> 00:47:00,079
the slow methodical

1272
00:47:03,829 --> 00:47:02,640
thoughtful way that they that they have

1273
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:03,839
tried to

1274
00:47:11,349 --> 00:47:05,359
to

1275
00:47:13,589 --> 00:47:11,359
out and legitimized and acknowledged by

1276
00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:13,599
like our government and you know

1277
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:15,359
other folks and things like that

1278
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:17,280
so i get it you know what i mean but

1279
00:47:22,549 --> 00:47:20,559
it's but it's an important wrinkle it's

1280
00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:22,559
like for people to know

1281
00:47:25,510 --> 00:47:23,520
um

1282
00:47:26,230 --> 00:47:25,520
in a contextual framework and i'm glad

1283
00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:26,240
that

1284
00:47:30,069 --> 00:47:27,440
ralph is

1285
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,079
able to be more open about that now than

1286
00:47:34,549 --> 00:47:32,160
they may have been a few years ago yeah

1287
00:47:36,069 --> 00:47:34,559
i mean yeah no definitely i'm leslie's

1288
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:36,079
very careful when she said it she goes

1289
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,000
we're very careful

1290
00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:40,000
about what we try to get

1291
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:42,640
printed in the new york times and other

1292
00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:44,160
media we just want to stick to what we

1293
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:46,240
know so i mean she also does work though

1294
00:47:49,349 --> 00:47:47,680
she does work on

1295
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:49,359
you know survival survival of

1296
00:47:53,750 --> 00:47:51,760
consciousness and physical mediums which

1297
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:53,760
i love physical mediumship so i was so

1298
00:47:58,470 --> 00:47:56,000
happy when i saw her working on that and

1299
00:48:00,069 --> 00:47:58,480
reincarnation um

1300
00:48:01,829 --> 00:48:00,079
but how did you find out how did you

1301
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:01,839
find out the article

1302
00:48:07,270 --> 00:48:03,200
was killed

1303
00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:07,280
okay oh um okay so how was it killed um

1304
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:09,200
so

1305
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:11,359
it was it was it was challenging there

1306
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:13,599
like so the fourth of july so i think it

1307
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:15,119
was

1308
00:48:18,870 --> 00:48:16,800
we were all really really psyched we

1309
00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:18,880
were like the the few the folks from

1310
00:48:22,330 --> 00:48:21,280
from from that were featured in the

1311
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:22,340
article um

1312
00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:23,520
[Music]

1313
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:25,440
nadine

1314
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:26,880
robin

1315
00:48:29,589 --> 00:48:28,079
lasseter

1316
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:29,599
stuart davis

1317
00:48:34,710 --> 00:48:32,160
as mentioned in there um

1318
00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:34,720
and uh cara and austin

1319
00:48:38,230 --> 00:48:35,760
and

1320
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:38,240
you know we were all you know ralph had

1321
00:48:42,870 --> 00:48:40,000
kind of like blasted out like oh you

1322
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:42,880
know and then it was

1323
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:45,520
not even 72 hours before

1324
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:46,559
before

1325
00:48:49,829 --> 00:48:48,720
like it was slated to run and he was

1326
00:48:56,710 --> 00:48:49,839
like

1327
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:56,720
hearing back from

1328
00:49:00,309 --> 00:48:59,280
like whoever like whatever contact

1329
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:00,319
person

1330
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:02,640
um would normally be getting back to him

1331
00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:04,319
so he knew that there was an issue and

1332
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:05,680
he was like it doesn't look like it's

1333
00:49:09,589 --> 00:49:07,760
happening this week i don't know why i'm

1334
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:09,599
looking for answers

1335
00:49:12,309 --> 00:49:10,640
um

1336
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:12,319
and like i probably should like i don't

1337
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:13,359
want to go

1338
00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:15,440
like i'd you know i i don't want to

1339
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:16,720
quote from like private emails or

1340
00:49:20,069 --> 00:49:18,240
something like that but like you know

1341
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:20,079
there was this like after that point

1342
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:22,079
there was like

1343
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:24,240
a couple weeks where it was like okay

1344
00:49:27,349 --> 00:49:25,920
looks like it's probably you know a

1345
00:49:29,349 --> 00:49:27,359
couple weeks later it's like okay it

1346
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:29,359
seems like it's gonna run now

1347
00:49:36,069 --> 00:49:33,040
um and then it didn't happen and then

1348
00:49:40,950 --> 00:49:38,870
like he was obviously like having

1349
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:40,960
long-form conversations with people and

1350
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:43,440
then a few weeks you know by

1351
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:45,599
the beginning of august you know he was

1352
00:49:49,349 --> 00:49:48,079
like look i'm i'm gonna have to i'm

1353
00:49:50,950 --> 00:49:49,359
gonna have to start looking at other

1354
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:50,960
places like

1355
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:52,160
like um

1356
00:49:58,150 --> 00:49:54,880
like it was we uh you know i always knew

1357
00:49:59,670 --> 00:49:58,160
that this was that this was gonna be you

1358
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:59,680
know like

1359
00:50:01,670 --> 00:50:00,559
um

1360
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:01,680
challenging

1361
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:04,000
but like it it but

1362
00:50:07,750 --> 00:50:06,240
you know from his perspective and from

1363
00:50:09,430 --> 00:50:07,760
from what i've heard you know there was

1364
00:50:12,549 --> 00:50:09,440
an editorial change over the summer at

1365
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:12,559
the times and some of the people and i

1366
00:50:16,470 --> 00:50:14,160
don't know why but a couple of the

1367
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:16,480
people that were particularly

1368
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:17,520
um

1369
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:23,280
uh associates of ralph's work and really

1370
00:50:29,990 --> 00:50:26,240
liked this particular you know the atip

1371
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:30,000
like that whole like body of stories um

1372
00:50:35,270 --> 00:50:32,559
they left and like a couple other people

1373
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:35,280
got traded out and like traded in

1374
00:50:40,870 --> 00:50:38,240
and um and he says that uh like a couple

1375
00:50:43,430 --> 00:50:40,880
of new people were were

1376
00:50:45,270 --> 00:50:43,440
much more skeptical much more skeptical

1377
00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:45,280
and

1378
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:57,520
speculate about that but

1379
00:51:02,470 --> 00:51:00,559
it's you know it's unfortunate that

1380
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:02,480
that

1381
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:07,680
such big questions huge questions you

1382
00:51:12,309 --> 00:51:09,520
know like like

1383
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:12,319
like is any like are are there other you

1384
00:51:17,589 --> 00:51:14,400
know advanced intelligences

1385
00:51:18,470 --> 00:51:17,599
like like around us so like are like are

1386
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:18,480
like

1387
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:27,680
how can they

1388
00:51:31,910 --> 00:51:30,000
contact us telepathically like how do

1389
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:31,920
they communicate with us like that what

1390
00:51:34,870 --> 00:51:33,119
like what's this consciousness

1391
00:51:37,270 --> 00:51:34,880
connection these are like some of the

1392
00:51:39,109 --> 00:51:37,280
like the biggest questions that in in my

1393
00:51:40,390 --> 00:51:39,119
mind anyway and this is obviously

1394
00:51:42,069 --> 00:51:40,400
because my history and things like this

1395
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:42,079
but like these are some of the biggest

1396
00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:44,240
questions you could ask and just the

1397
00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:45,920
idea that like a couple people could be

1398
00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:47,040
like yeah

1399
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:49,359
i'm skeptical of that it's like how like

1400
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:52,480
you're skeptical of like

1401
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:54,400
you know like i mean like what you're

1402
00:51:58,950 --> 00:51:56,160
saying with leslie's work it's like

1403
00:51:59,829 --> 00:51:58,960
what's her other big thread like like

1404
00:52:03,270 --> 00:51:59,839
like

1405
00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:03,280
the survival of consciousness right and

1406
00:52:07,030 --> 00:52:05,440
it's like these are some of the biggest

1407
00:52:08,790 --> 00:52:07,040
questions that you can contend with and

1408
00:52:10,230 --> 00:52:08,800
i recognize that involved

1409
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:10,240
involves risk

1410
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:12,400
and it involves like some of the

1411
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:13,839
scariest

1412
00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:15,760
issues that people could think about

1413
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:17,200
like mortality

1414
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:18,400
and like whether

1415
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:20,160
and whether something else is like

1416
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:22,720
smarter or more advanced or

1417
00:52:27,109 --> 00:52:25,200
you know has some kind of advantage or

1418
00:52:28,870 --> 00:52:27,119
whatever you know like if you're not the

1419
00:52:31,349 --> 00:52:28,880
top of the food chain or however you

1420
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:31,359
want to frame it you know like people

1421
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:33,839
tend to contextualize things that way or

1422
00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:36,240
be like you know threat narratives all

1423
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:37,520
that kind of stuff

1424
00:52:42,390 --> 00:52:40,480
and and so like i get why people would

1425
00:52:44,790 --> 00:52:42,400
want i get why people would want to

1426
00:52:48,230 --> 00:52:44,800
avoid these topics sometimes but at the

1427
00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:48,240
same time it doesn't mean that it's not

1428
00:52:53,349 --> 00:52:51,040
it it like we know that it's real you

1429
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:53,359
know what i mean like we know that like

1430
00:52:58,069 --> 00:52:55,920
we know that ufos exist we have those

1431
00:53:00,790 --> 00:52:58,079
cockpit videos we have had things

1432
00:53:02,950 --> 00:53:00,800
acknowledged we you know and like

1433
00:53:04,790 --> 00:53:02,960
you know i'm preaching to the choir here

1434
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:04,800
like with you joe but like you know we

1435
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:07,680
like you know you like you go down this

1436
00:53:13,430 --> 00:53:10,400
road and you and and

1437
00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:13,440
and it becomes frustrating when when

1438
00:53:16,309 --> 00:53:15,440
when when these kind of roadblocks come

1439
00:53:17,910 --> 00:53:16,319
up but

1440
00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:17,920
you know it's

1441
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:20,160
i'm just happy that we're here now in

1442
00:53:25,829 --> 00:53:24,000
2021 with it and like and there are dams

1443
00:53:27,829 --> 00:53:25,839
that are breaking there are stories that

1444
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:27,839
are getting through there we are making

1445
00:53:30,549 --> 00:53:29,040
progress

1446
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:30,559
and

1447
00:53:34,150 --> 00:53:33,119
you know the like the old

1448
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:34,160
like

1449
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:39,119
denial and swamp gas and all that stuff

1450
00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:41,200
like that those days are over thank god

1451
00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:42,480
but like

1452
00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:44,000
you know like

1453
00:53:48,150 --> 00:53:44,880
it's

1454
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:48,160
like we're at a position where where we

1455
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:50,079
should be able to to take on these

1456
00:53:55,270 --> 00:53:52,640
contentious issues these these these

1457
00:53:56,790 --> 00:53:55,280
challenging questions you know and when

1458
00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:56,800
some people say

1459
00:54:01,670 --> 00:53:59,440
like oh you know like it's not the right

1460
00:54:03,030 --> 00:54:01,680
time like we're dealing with cockpit

1461
00:54:04,710 --> 00:54:03,040
videos like they'll experience your

1462
00:54:06,630 --> 00:54:04,720
stuff like we need to be dealing with

1463
00:54:08,710 --> 00:54:06,640
that further down the road it's like

1464
00:54:11,030 --> 00:54:08,720
like i was reading that stuff like when

1465
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:11,040
we when we posted ralph

1466
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:12,720
you know on twitter being frustrated

1467
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:15,680
about the you know going public with us

1468
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:17,760
about the times like rejecting the piece

1469
00:54:22,870 --> 00:54:19,680
right not right and choosing not to run

1470
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:22,880
the piece and and you know like i saw

1471
00:54:27,910 --> 00:54:24,880
some you know like i tried to put my

1472
00:54:30,549 --> 00:54:27,920
blinders on and like only and you know

1473
00:54:33,190 --> 00:54:30,559
only go so far down the road of like how

1474
00:54:35,430 --> 00:54:33,200
how much skepticism i wanted to i wanted

1475
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:35,440
to i wanted to entertain in terms of

1476
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:37,200
like what i was reading but you know

1477
00:54:41,190 --> 00:54:38,720
some people are like oh it's not you

1478
00:54:43,910 --> 00:54:41,200
know it's not it's not the right time as

1479
00:54:46,549 --> 00:54:43,920
if like as if anybody in this field like

1480
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:46,559
has some like secret stew recipe that

1481
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:48,720
the rest of us don't know when it's like

1482
00:54:53,230 --> 00:54:50,160
the right time to sprinkle in the

1483
00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:53,240
experiences or something it's april 19th

1484
00:54:57,270 --> 00:54:56,079
2024. jay i figured it out that is the

1485
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:57,280
right time

1486
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:58,079
right

1487
00:55:01,910 --> 00:55:00,480
and it's like and it's it's super ironic

1488
00:55:04,549 --> 00:55:01,920
too because it was like literally the

1489
00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:04,559
same the the the weeks it was the 60th

1490
00:55:09,190 --> 00:55:06,400
anniversary of betty and barney hill's

1491
00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:09,200
encounter and it's like that was okay

1492
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:11,359
try telling betty like that was 60 years

1493
00:55:15,990 --> 00:55:13,520
ago all right and if it's like 60 years

1494
00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:16,000
later than that and it's still too early

1495
00:55:19,510 --> 00:55:16,960
like

1496
00:55:21,990 --> 00:55:19,520
i don't know if you know what i mean

1497
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:22,000
it's like i don't like i i'm being

1498
00:55:25,270 --> 00:55:23,520
sarcastic here but it's like i don't

1499
00:55:25,990 --> 00:55:25,280
know you guys have you looked outside

1500
00:55:29,349 --> 00:55:26,000
like

1501
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:29,359
left you know what i mean sometimes and

1502
00:55:32,950 --> 00:55:31,440
it's just like if it's like

1503
00:55:35,030 --> 00:55:32,960
you know you could make a case that it's

1504
00:55:36,309 --> 00:55:35,040
too late rather than too early if you

1505
00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:36,319
want to go down that road you know what

1506
00:55:39,829 --> 00:55:38,160
i mean like i don't know yeah definitely

1507
00:55:41,190 --> 00:55:39,839
i mean yeah i've definitely thought

1508
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:41,200
about that and i go back and forth i'm

1509
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:42,720
like

1510
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:44,559
how long are we gonna have to wait i i

1511
00:55:48,470 --> 00:55:46,160
need i think

1512
00:55:49,910 --> 00:55:48,480
i think we're getting there but i mean

1513
00:55:51,190 --> 00:55:49,920
i don't know i don't know if we're going

1514
00:55:53,109 --> 00:55:51,200
to get that

1515
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:53,119
media coverage i think that we're

1516
00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:55,040
looking for i think we will i think

1517
00:55:57,109 --> 00:55:56,400
we're heading in that right direction

1518
00:55:58,870 --> 00:55:57,119
but

1519
00:56:00,870 --> 00:55:58,880
that's almost part of me doesn't he is

1520
00:56:02,309 --> 00:56:00,880
disappoint not disappointed but part of

1521
00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:02,319
me is like maybe i shouldn't even known

1522
00:56:05,430 --> 00:56:04,000
about the new york times article because

1523
00:56:07,829 --> 00:56:05,440
now it's like we were so close and i'm

1524
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:07,839
not even an experiencer i can't imagine

1525
00:56:11,349 --> 00:56:09,839
you guys i mean you guys

1526
00:56:12,470 --> 00:56:11,359
you know you were bringing brett along

1527
00:56:13,990 --> 00:56:12,480
and then

1528
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:14,000
i mean obviously he told you it wasn't a

1529
00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:15,440
done deal but it's you know it's got to

1530
00:56:19,430 --> 00:56:16,640
be

1531
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:19,440
disheartening and um

1532
00:56:23,109 --> 00:56:21,119
well you know

1533
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:23,119
yeah i mean like i mean

1534
00:56:28,829 --> 00:56:25,760
you know to be very frank like there was

1535
00:56:32,710 --> 00:56:28,839
like there was definitely um

1536
00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:32,720
like and uh like i was like i was on a

1537
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:35,440
zoom earlier today we recorded a session

1538
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:37,760
with everybody that was featured that

1539
00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:39,839
ralph talked to in that article and and

1540
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:42,079
we'll post it soon it was a really

1541
00:56:45,589 --> 00:56:43,599
productive

1542
00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:45,599
deep thoughtful conversation we've never

1543
00:56:50,470 --> 00:56:48,480
all gotten together like that and um

1544
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:50,480
and so you know

1545
00:56:55,910 --> 00:56:52,400
me stuart davis

1546
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:55,920
uh robin lasseter nadine laylach uh

1547
00:57:02,950 --> 00:56:58,960
karen austin and and it was great it was

1548
00:57:06,309 --> 00:57:02,960
super it was but like you know there was

1549
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:06,319
what one thing that came up is is

1550
00:57:11,349 --> 00:57:09,760
you know karin and nadine like have been

1551
00:57:12,789 --> 00:57:11,359
um

1552
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:12,799
have acknowledged

1553
00:57:17,990 --> 00:57:15,119
um their their

1554
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:18,000
their et experience in public before

1555
00:57:21,990 --> 00:57:20,720
all right and robin and i hadn't and

1556
00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:22,000
stuart had

1557
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:23,760
so we we you know we kind of compared

1558
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:25,680
notes that way and

1559
00:57:30,069 --> 00:57:28,079
and one one thing that came up was just

1560
00:57:31,910 --> 00:57:30,079
like you know the the

1561
00:57:33,670 --> 00:57:31,920
that like this whole like will they or

1562
00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:33,680
won't they thing and like trying to

1563
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:35,599
remove it from like

1564
00:57:39,670 --> 00:57:37,200
like feeling some sense of like

1565
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:39,680
validation you know what i mean and it's

1566
00:57:43,430 --> 00:57:40,880
just like

1567
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:43,440
and it was difficult it was challenging

1568
00:57:49,030 --> 00:57:46,640
there was a lot of and like and like i

1569
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:49,040
you know i'd be i'd be

1570
00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:51,200
absolutely 100 lying if i told you that

1571
00:57:58,470 --> 00:57:55,200
like i that i wasn't like you know that

1572
00:58:02,390 --> 00:57:58,480
like i had days where i was just like

1573
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:02,400
really you know upset like uh like

1574
00:58:05,349 --> 00:58:04,000
like

1575
00:58:07,349 --> 00:58:05,359
about

1576
00:58:09,510 --> 00:58:07,359
the idea that like

1577
00:58:11,349 --> 00:58:09,520
you know working on something having all

1578
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:11,359
the interviews with ralph ralph working

1579
00:58:16,470 --> 00:58:14,160
on it seeing drafts of it being like

1580
00:58:18,390 --> 00:58:16,480
and even like the symbolism of the

1581
00:58:21,030 --> 00:58:18,400
fourth of july and the sunday you know

1582
00:58:24,230 --> 00:58:21,040
what i mean the whole thing is just like

1583
00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:24,240
it just this like gleaming

1584
00:58:28,950 --> 00:58:27,040
like amazing situation and like having

1585
00:58:31,109 --> 00:58:28,960
the rug pulled out like that and it's

1586
00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:31,119
just like it's just like

1587
00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:33,760
you know and like are we just going to

1588
00:58:40,069 --> 00:58:36,640
be like like rejected

1589
00:58:41,990 --> 00:58:40,079
like unacknowledged underdogs forever

1590
00:58:44,069 --> 00:58:42,000
you know what i mean and it's and it's

1591
00:58:45,510 --> 00:58:44,079
it's a and like one of the most annoying

1592
00:58:48,710 --> 00:58:45,520
things is that like

1593
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:48,720
this whole field exists like and and

1594
00:58:52,390 --> 00:58:51,520
like i don't think this is like an over

1595
00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:52,400
us

1596
00:58:59,030 --> 00:58:55,680
like an exaggeration it's we know

1597
00:59:01,510 --> 00:58:59,040
about you know ufology exists

1598
00:59:03,510 --> 00:59:01,520
like like like anomalous studies all

1599
00:59:06,150 --> 00:59:03,520
this stuff it exists

1600
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:06,160
because the people that experience these

1601
00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:08,640
things talked about it right okay you

1602
00:59:12,950 --> 00:59:10,640
know what i mean what you know whether

1603
00:59:14,230 --> 00:59:12,960
we're talking about like a navy pilot

1604
00:59:15,829 --> 00:59:14,240
whether we're talking david fravor

1605
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:15,839
whether we're talking whitley strieber

1606
00:59:19,990 --> 00:59:18,960
or betty barney hill you know like

1607
00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:20,000
like

1608
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:24,720
accounts you might you might

1609
00:59:28,630 --> 00:59:25,680
you

1610
00:59:30,710 --> 00:59:28,640
it

1611
00:59:33,270 --> 00:59:30,720
the whole thing exists because like

1612
00:59:35,270 --> 00:59:33,280
people were like you know

1613
00:59:37,109 --> 00:59:35,280
they saw something

1614
00:59:40,390 --> 00:59:37,119
and they said something you know what i

1615
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:40,400
mean about it and and so like when

1616
00:59:44,710 --> 00:59:42,240
people when when

1617
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:44,720
when people are completely decentralized

1618
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:47,040
from that conversation it's like

1619
00:59:50,230 --> 00:59:49,200
like like

1620
00:59:56,309 --> 00:59:50,240
it's

1621
00:59:58,710 --> 00:59:56,319
because

1622
01:00:01,030 --> 00:59:58,720
it's like like like

1623
01:00:03,030 --> 01:00:01,040
you know like

1624
01:00:04,309 --> 01:00:03,040
like where did all your stories come

1625
01:00:06,630 --> 01:00:04,319
from where did all your favorite

1626
01:00:08,630 --> 01:00:06,640
accounts come from they like they came

1627
01:00:11,750 --> 01:00:08,640
out because somebody talked about them

1628
01:00:13,670 --> 01:00:11,760
right and so and and so you know like

1629
01:00:14,470 --> 01:00:13,680
and even if you don't believe somebody

1630
01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:14,480
like

1631
01:00:18,470 --> 01:00:16,240
you know there's there's still the the

1632
01:00:20,309 --> 01:00:18,480
the tradition and and

1633
01:00:24,470 --> 01:00:20,319
and the history of that and also just

1634
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:24,480
the respect of like fellow human beings

1635
01:00:28,470 --> 01:00:26,880
um no i i can't imagine i'm like i said

1636
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:28,480
i'm not an experiencer and i i would

1637
01:00:33,270 --> 01:00:30,720
have been devastated i know how i i know

1638
01:00:35,030 --> 01:00:33,280
how i was last year last year

1639
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:35,040
i had you know

1640
01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:36,880
people telling me specifics about the

1641
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:38,240
new york times article on crash

1642
01:00:42,069 --> 01:00:39,680
retrieval so

1643
01:00:43,670 --> 01:00:42,079
and i and i heard it was going to be

1644
01:00:45,670 --> 01:00:43,680
substantial

1645
01:00:47,910 --> 01:00:45,680
and then it came out and i'm reading the

1646
01:00:49,910 --> 01:00:47,920
article and it was

1647
01:00:51,910 --> 01:00:49,920
it was like i was like wait no where's

1648
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:51,920
the article no really we're this is not

1649
01:00:56,230 --> 01:00:53,040
the article

1650
01:00:57,270 --> 01:00:56,240
you know i was so disappointed um then i

1651
01:00:58,870 --> 01:00:57,280
realized there was some really good

1652
01:01:00,789 --> 01:00:58,880
stuff in there but

1653
01:01:02,549 --> 01:01:00,799
later on we learned that the editors the

1654
01:01:03,670 --> 01:01:02,559
edit the good editors the ones who are

1655
01:01:06,230 --> 01:01:03,680
gone now

1656
01:01:08,829 --> 01:01:06,240
they just cut out a lot so

1657
01:01:11,670 --> 01:01:08,839
so i can only imagine how you guys felt

1658
01:01:13,270 --> 01:01:11,680
um but yes thanks for sharing that all

1659
01:01:15,030 --> 01:01:13,280
and i definitely want to move on to some

1660
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:15,040
of i think your next experience is it

1661
01:01:21,109 --> 01:01:18,000
the one up the stairs with the slats

1662
01:01:25,750 --> 01:01:21,119
oh okay yeah so all right so um

1663
01:01:27,670 --> 01:01:25,760
so after that house you know and and

1664
01:01:30,069 --> 01:01:27,680
you know a lot of people connect

1665
01:01:32,150 --> 01:01:30,079
poltergeist phenomena with like

1666
01:01:34,470 --> 01:01:32,160
so-called et experience and things like

1667
01:01:36,549 --> 01:01:34,480
that and like i don't i like i don't

1668
01:01:38,230 --> 01:01:36,559
have any answers about that i don't know

1669
01:01:40,390 --> 01:01:38,240
let me read the one thing i told you

1670
01:01:42,230 --> 01:01:40,400
about so eric davis who's done a lot of

1671
01:01:44,470 --> 01:01:42,240
work in this field dr eric davis an

1672
01:01:46,470 --> 01:01:44,480
astrophysicist

1673
01:01:48,309 --> 01:01:46,480
he sat on coast to coast a few years ago

1674
01:01:50,230 --> 01:01:48,319
and i didn't know this and i need to get

1675
01:01:53,349 --> 01:01:50,240
clarification from him but he said quote

1676
01:01:56,309 --> 01:01:53,359
poltergeist phenomenon is always

1677
01:01:57,510 --> 01:01:56,319
always attached to ufo encounters it's

1678
01:01:59,430 --> 01:01:57,520
something that's not very well

1679
01:02:02,390 --> 01:01:59,440
understood or recognized by many in

1680
01:02:04,390 --> 01:02:02,400
ufology every time you have ufos you're

1681
01:02:05,510 --> 01:02:04,400
going to have poltergeists associated

1682
01:02:07,349 --> 01:02:05,520
with them

1683
01:02:08,630 --> 01:02:07,359
so yeah i did not know that and i need

1684
01:02:10,309 --> 01:02:08,640
to get clarification because there are

1685
01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:10,319
people that have who have had encounters

1686
01:02:13,109 --> 01:02:11,839
who said i don't have polar guys

1687
01:02:14,789 --> 01:02:13,119
activity so

1688
01:02:17,349 --> 01:02:14,799
but yeah

1689
01:02:19,029 --> 01:02:17,359
so yeah no no not at all i think that i

1690
01:02:22,710 --> 01:02:19,039
mean i think that's great context and

1691
01:02:24,309 --> 01:02:22,720
like i mean i like er like if i go

1692
01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:24,319
overboard in this realm i just want to

1693
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:25,920
keep underlining don't like the part

1694
01:02:29,589 --> 01:02:27,920
where it's just like i am like if

1695
01:02:30,870 --> 01:02:29,599
somebody wants the answers they're not

1696
01:02:33,109 --> 01:02:30,880
going to find them with me you know what

1697
01:02:35,029 --> 01:02:33,119
i mean like i like again like i've got

1698
01:02:36,549 --> 01:02:35,039
big questions i don't have the answers

1699
01:02:38,309 --> 01:02:36,559
and so like

1700
01:02:39,190 --> 01:02:38,319
i i think that that's important to set

1701
01:02:41,430 --> 01:02:39,200
up an

1702
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:41,440
important thing to set up uh like from

1703
01:02:46,150 --> 01:02:43,680
the outset but thank you sparrow we're

1704
01:02:48,870 --> 01:02:46,160
getting there right now jay has some

1705
01:02:51,510 --> 01:02:48,880
more to share all right

1706
01:02:53,190 --> 01:02:51,520
uh thanks jerel so um

1707
01:02:55,109 --> 01:02:53,200
so okay so

1708
01:02:58,549 --> 01:02:55,119
um i was about

1709
01:03:00,390 --> 01:02:58,559
nine or ten years old and uh living in a

1710
01:03:02,789 --> 01:03:00,400
different town in indiana my mom like

1711
01:03:04,069 --> 01:03:02,799
they got divorced my mom remarried uh

1712
01:03:05,589 --> 01:03:04,079
she uh

1713
01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:05,599
and we were living in a college town in

1714
01:03:12,390 --> 01:03:08,000
southern indiana and

1715
01:03:16,230 --> 01:03:12,400
and um i had my first um kind of classic

1716
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:16,240
uh abduction experience i i was i was in

1717
01:03:20,390 --> 01:03:18,480
uh my bedroom which was in kind of like

1718
01:03:24,549 --> 01:03:20,400
a partially finished basement

1719
01:03:29,029 --> 01:03:24,559
um in hanover indiana and um

1720
01:03:31,029 --> 01:03:29,039
and i was on i was sitting like half

1721
01:03:33,349 --> 01:03:31,039
i was on my bed and do you remember

1722
01:03:35,349 --> 01:03:33,359
those old husband pillows those like

1723
01:03:37,270 --> 01:03:35,359
those like goofy pillows with the arms

1724
01:03:39,190 --> 01:03:37,280
that were like popular and like looking

1725
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:39,200
them up today yes they're called i did

1726
01:03:44,549 --> 01:03:41,760
arm wraps yes they're like

1727
01:03:46,549 --> 01:03:44,559
half of a recliner or yeah

1728
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:46,559
yeah and so like and so like i had one

1729
01:03:49,750 --> 01:03:47,520
of those things

1730
01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:49,760
they're often corduroy mine was anyway

1731
01:03:54,309 --> 01:03:52,079
as i recall and like and so like i was

1732
01:03:57,190 --> 01:03:54,319
kind of like half reclined

1733
01:03:59,510 --> 01:03:57,200
on on on my bed

1734
01:04:01,750 --> 01:03:59,520
and i

1735
01:04:02,710 --> 01:04:01,760
i had fallen asleep like that which was

1736
01:04:05,190 --> 01:04:02,720
rare

1737
01:04:07,029 --> 01:04:05,200
right and i think that might have been

1738
01:04:09,109 --> 01:04:07,039
part of the reason why

1739
01:04:11,910 --> 01:04:09,119
why um i

1740
01:04:15,910 --> 01:04:11,920
have this memory at all or or why i saw

1741
01:04:17,990 --> 01:04:15,920
what i did and so like i i wake up and

1742
01:04:19,190 --> 01:04:18,000
there are two

1743
01:04:22,549 --> 01:04:19,200
like um

1744
01:04:25,190 --> 01:04:22,559
gray like beings um

1745
01:04:29,109 --> 01:04:25,200
like just past the foot of my bed

1746
01:04:31,109 --> 01:04:29,119
um like there's one that kind of like

1747
01:04:33,510 --> 01:04:31,119
passed the left end of the bed and one

1748
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:33,520
passed the right and um

1749
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:35,520
and the one

1750
01:04:38,870 --> 01:04:37,920
like to my left

1751
01:04:41,510 --> 01:04:38,880
um

1752
01:04:44,230 --> 01:04:41,520
was holding this like kind of like a

1753
01:04:47,109 --> 01:04:44,240
chrome rod that was maybe like

1754
01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:47,119
16 18 inches long or something like that

1755
01:04:51,990 --> 01:04:50,000
like this little thin like about uh like

1756
01:04:54,150 --> 01:04:52,000
maybe it was the width of like

1757
01:04:55,589 --> 01:04:54,160
my ring finger or something like that

1758
01:04:57,349 --> 01:04:55,599
and um

1759
01:04:58,710 --> 01:04:57,359
and the other one

1760
01:05:01,910 --> 01:04:58,720
to the right

1761
01:05:04,870 --> 01:05:01,920
started moving towards me all right

1762
01:05:06,390 --> 01:05:04,880
and like the thing was like like when i

1763
01:05:08,630 --> 01:05:06,400
first woke up and saw this i was just

1764
01:05:09,829 --> 01:05:08,640
like what you know like what is

1765
01:05:10,710 --> 01:05:09,839
happening

1766
01:05:13,589 --> 01:05:10,720
but

1767
01:05:16,069 --> 01:05:13,599
for whatever reason like my first

1768
01:05:18,789 --> 01:05:16,079
my first response was not fear my first

1769
01:05:21,349 --> 01:05:18,799
response was like wonder

1770
01:05:23,990 --> 01:05:21,359
but then the the being on the right

1771
01:05:26,230 --> 01:05:24,000
started moving towards me without kind

1772
01:05:27,430 --> 01:05:26,240
of like saying anything or acknowledging

1773
01:05:28,950 --> 01:05:27,440
anything or

1774
01:05:31,190 --> 01:05:28,960
any kind of warmth or anything it just

1775
01:05:32,309 --> 01:05:31,200
started moving towards me and and this

1776
01:05:35,109 --> 01:05:32,319
kind of like

1777
01:05:36,630 --> 01:05:35,119
almost marionette like

1778
01:05:39,270 --> 01:05:36,640
uh movement

1779
01:05:42,309 --> 01:05:39,280
and it was that movement that

1780
01:05:44,150 --> 01:05:42,319
that like it was it didn't walk like us

1781
01:05:46,870 --> 01:05:44,160
right this kind of marionette movement

1782
01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:50,470
i was like deeply scared like like

1783
01:05:55,190 --> 01:05:53,200
you know instantaneously and seeing that

1784
01:05:57,829 --> 01:05:55,200
and as it started moving towards me the

1785
01:05:59,109 --> 01:05:57,839
other one like raised its arm with this

1786
01:06:01,990 --> 01:05:59,119
rod

1787
01:06:03,270 --> 01:06:02,000
and like i blacked out or passed out or

1788
01:06:04,630 --> 01:06:03,280
however you wanna you know what i mean

1789
01:06:06,309 --> 01:06:04,640
it's just like

1790
01:06:07,990 --> 01:06:06,319
you know

1791
01:06:09,589 --> 01:06:08,000
i've heard that rod before uh have you

1792
01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:09,599
or is that a common

1793
01:06:14,069 --> 01:06:11,520
aspect of abductions

1794
01:06:15,029 --> 01:06:14,079
um you know i i i

1795
01:06:17,510 --> 01:06:15,039
um

1796
01:06:20,390 --> 01:06:17,520
like since you know i've heard other

1797
01:06:22,549 --> 01:06:20,400
accounts um since

1798
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:22,559
i and like i you know i'm like a student

1799
01:06:26,309 --> 01:06:24,640
of this stuff and like i like i'd heard

1800
01:06:27,349 --> 01:06:26,319
a couple times about something like that

1801
01:06:31,109 --> 01:06:27,359
but

1802
01:06:34,789 --> 01:06:33,349
like ralph actually helped corroborate

1803
01:06:36,789 --> 01:06:34,799
that and said that that was something

1804
01:06:38,870 --> 01:06:36,799
that that like in going through john's

1805
01:06:41,510 --> 01:06:38,880
records that that

1806
01:06:43,990 --> 01:06:41,520
that kept coming up and so

1807
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:44,000
and ralph talking to me like that was

1808
01:06:47,910 --> 01:06:46,000
something that he that kind of pinged

1809
01:06:49,029 --> 01:06:47,920
for him when he heard about the rod he

1810
01:06:51,510 --> 01:06:49,039
was like

1811
01:06:53,349 --> 01:06:51,520
um and so you know i heard about that

1812
01:06:55,910 --> 01:06:53,359
later but um

1813
01:06:57,670 --> 01:06:55,920
so apparently you know john

1814
01:06:59,910 --> 01:06:57,680
john had kind of like a list or

1815
01:07:03,109 --> 01:06:59,920
something like this of john mack had a

1816
01:07:06,789 --> 01:07:03,119
list of like you know these kind of like

1817
01:07:08,789 --> 01:07:06,799
weird random details that that um

1818
01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:08,799
that kept popping up

1819
01:07:13,510 --> 01:07:11,200
but um i didn't you know like i didn't

1820
01:07:14,470 --> 01:07:13,520
know that until this year you know i

1821
01:07:15,270 --> 01:07:14,480
like

1822
01:07:17,349 --> 01:07:15,280
um

1823
01:07:20,549 --> 01:07:17,359
but anyway so like uh yeah so like the

1824
01:07:22,549 --> 01:07:20,559
rod comes up i black out all right and

1825
01:07:24,150 --> 01:07:22,559
i'm not sure if it was like it was

1826
01:07:26,150 --> 01:07:24,160
within the next period of days i don't

1827
01:07:28,789 --> 01:07:26,160
know if it was a couple days later or

1828
01:07:30,789 --> 01:07:28,799
like a week later or two weeks later um

1829
01:07:32,630 --> 01:07:30,799
again you know like i'm this is like 40

1830
01:07:34,069 --> 01:07:32,640
uh 30 years ago that

1831
01:07:35,510 --> 01:07:34,079
like over 30 years ago that this

1832
01:07:38,470 --> 01:07:35,520
happened um

1833
01:07:40,309 --> 01:07:38,480
but um i was i was again this unfinished

1834
01:07:42,630 --> 01:07:40,319
basement i was walking up the basement

1835
01:07:44,470 --> 01:07:42,640
steps and they were like slat steps you

1836
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:44,480
know just like wood slat steps and i

1837
01:07:48,630 --> 01:07:46,000
could see through

1838
01:07:50,549 --> 01:07:48,640
like the slats to the laundry room

1839
01:07:51,430 --> 01:07:50,559
behind the the steps going to the

1840
01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:51,440
kitchen

1841
01:07:55,829 --> 01:07:53,520
and

1842
01:07:58,950 --> 01:07:55,839
super weird detail like i'm going up the

1843
01:08:01,430 --> 01:07:58,960
steps i i and i see movement in the

1844
01:08:03,910 --> 01:08:01,440
laundry room and i look in and one of

1845
01:08:05,750 --> 01:08:03,920
those same types of beings i don't know

1846
01:08:06,470 --> 01:08:05,760
if it was the same one as one of those

1847
01:08:09,589 --> 01:08:06,480
two

1848
01:08:13,109 --> 01:08:09,599
but there's a being it was crouched in

1849
01:08:15,670 --> 01:08:13,119
front of the the washing machine

1850
01:08:18,309 --> 01:08:15,680
and it was like going through

1851
01:08:19,829 --> 01:08:18,319
um like a pile of dirty clothes that

1852
01:08:21,590 --> 01:08:19,839
were sitting in front of the washing

1853
01:08:24,390 --> 01:08:21,600
machine

1854
01:08:25,349 --> 01:08:24,400
and like and like it was just in like i

1855
01:08:30,870 --> 01:08:25,359
like

1856
01:08:33,110 --> 01:08:30,880
right

1857
01:08:35,189 --> 01:08:33,120
and then after that like

1858
01:08:37,030 --> 01:08:35,199
every time i went up and down those

1859
01:08:39,669 --> 01:08:37,040
steps i ran

1860
01:08:41,669 --> 01:08:39,679
up and down the steps as fast as i could

1861
01:08:43,829 --> 01:08:41,679
you know with child brain you know what

1862
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:43,839
i mean just the association of like

1863
01:08:49,030 --> 01:08:45,839
having seen that like

1864
01:08:52,229 --> 01:08:49,040
partially i think because like

1865
01:08:54,149 --> 01:08:52,239
the partly the fear was like it's back

1866
01:08:56,789 --> 01:08:54,159
but partially but also that it

1867
01:08:57,990 --> 01:08:56,799
corroborated that earlier experience you

1868
01:08:59,269 --> 01:08:58,000
know what i mean

1869
01:09:01,829 --> 01:08:59,279
because like

1870
01:09:03,669 --> 01:09:01,839
like i i was i had been wondering about

1871
01:09:04,470 --> 01:09:03,679
it and then just being like

1872
01:09:06,870 --> 01:09:04,480
like

1873
01:09:08,789 --> 01:09:06,880
the idea that that would be that

1874
01:09:09,990 --> 01:09:08,799
like that wasn't just a one-time only

1875
01:09:13,030 --> 01:09:10,000
occurrence

1876
01:09:15,110 --> 01:09:13,040
um was deeply freaky right

1877
01:09:16,470 --> 01:09:15,120
um yeah it's and it's like if if you're

1878
01:09:18,470 --> 01:09:16,480
gonna make up with people like he's

1879
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:18,480
making up a story like if you're gonna

1880
01:09:22,550 --> 01:09:20,159
make up a story you're not gonna make up

1881
01:09:25,189 --> 01:09:22,560
a story about

1882
01:09:26,870 --> 01:09:25,199
aliens obsessed with dirty laundry it's

1883
01:09:28,789 --> 01:09:26,880
the weirdest thing

1884
01:09:31,669 --> 01:09:28,799
yeah it's bizarre and like i don't i

1885
01:09:33,749 --> 01:09:31,679
don't know and like i have no idea like

1886
01:09:35,829 --> 01:09:33,759
like is there was there some

1887
01:09:37,990 --> 01:09:35,839
you know like i can speculate like what

1888
01:09:39,990 --> 01:09:38,000
was that was that did they accidentally

1889
01:09:41,669 --> 01:09:40,000
leave some piece of evidence and like

1890
01:09:43,669 --> 01:09:41,679
somebody had to go retrieve it i have no

1891
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:43,679
idea rod one of the rods was in the

1892
01:09:53,590 --> 01:09:45,520
pocket and they're like they're looking

1893
01:09:57,910 --> 01:09:55,830
yeah yeah i mean i'm just i'm yeah i'm

1894
01:09:59,590 --> 01:09:57,920
amazed like just thinking about like

1895
01:10:00,630 --> 01:09:59,600
that argument you know they get up there

1896
01:10:03,830 --> 01:10:00,640
and they're like

1897
01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:03,840
seriously again with the rod like

1898
01:10:06,950 --> 01:10:04,960
we're not going to give you a rod

1899
01:10:08,229 --> 01:10:06,960
anymore

1900
01:10:09,590 --> 01:10:08,239
you hear stories that they put you know

1901
01:10:11,030 --> 01:10:09,600
they make mistakes like they put people

1902
01:10:12,950 --> 01:10:11,040
back in the wrong spot and they're wrong

1903
01:10:14,470 --> 01:10:12,960
clothes the clothes run backwards so

1904
01:10:16,470 --> 01:10:14,480
they're not beyond

1905
01:10:18,310 --> 01:10:16,480
making mistakes or things like that but

1906
01:10:20,149 --> 01:10:18,320
maybe there's a home obsession with the

1907
01:10:21,590 --> 01:10:20,159
clothing i don't know yeah well and

1908
01:10:23,270 --> 01:10:21,600
there is and there is like a weird thing

1909
01:10:24,630 --> 01:10:23,280
where it's like the like the short grays

1910
01:10:27,430 --> 01:10:24,640
anyway the tall grays are smarter the

1911
01:10:29,910 --> 01:10:27,440
shorter grays like they're really like

1912
01:10:31,430 --> 01:10:29,920
the one of the weirdest things is like

1913
01:10:35,270 --> 01:10:31,440
totally with what you're saying is that

1914
01:10:37,510 --> 01:10:35,280
like they don't seem to be

1915
01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:37,520
they seem to have like kind of like

1916
01:10:41,590 --> 01:10:40,000
logic trees that it's like this is what

1917
01:10:43,270 --> 01:10:41,600
you're supposed to be doing like you

1918
01:10:46,310 --> 01:10:43,280
know kind of like a job description and

1919
01:10:49,189 --> 01:10:46,320
it's like when things deviate from like

1920
01:10:50,470 --> 01:10:49,199
like the norm for them they get totally

1921
01:10:51,990 --> 01:10:50,480
thrown off

1922
01:10:54,790 --> 01:10:52,000
like you know what i mean like these

1923
01:10:56,950 --> 01:10:54,800
like like these short they are not

1924
01:10:59,189 --> 01:10:56,960
gifted improvisers you know what i mean

1925
01:11:00,870 --> 01:10:59,199
like there's like like for whatever

1926
01:11:02,390 --> 01:11:00,880
reason and i think that partially plays

1927
01:11:04,470 --> 01:11:02,400
into why some people are like are they

1928
01:11:06,390 --> 01:11:04,480
drones are they ai

1929
01:11:08,310 --> 01:11:06,400
because i was thinking because because

1930
01:11:11,510 --> 01:11:08,320
like there's this kind of like does not

1931
01:11:14,709 --> 01:11:11,520
compute angle that comes into play when

1932
01:11:16,630 --> 01:11:14,719
if you like and it's it's one strategy

1933
01:11:18,070 --> 01:11:16,640
that some experiencers talk about like

1934
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:18,080
privately is like you know if you're in

1935
01:11:24,149 --> 01:11:21,280
a situation like one way to defuse or

1936
01:11:27,189 --> 01:11:24,159
shift like one of these things is like

1937
01:11:29,189 --> 01:11:27,199
you know it like it would be if you're

1938
01:11:32,070 --> 01:11:29,199
conscious to do something that doesn't

1939
01:11:34,310 --> 01:11:32,080
make any sense basically or like kind of

1940
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:34,320
re-route into something that that they

1941
01:11:38,149 --> 01:11:36,320
just wouldn't anticipate

1942
01:11:40,630 --> 01:11:38,159
and like that's and it's like an it

1943
01:11:42,630 --> 01:11:40,640
would be an amazingly hard thing to do

1944
01:11:45,030 --> 01:11:42,640
in the moment but it's

1945
01:11:47,990 --> 01:11:45,040
but it but it's th those kinds of

1946
01:11:51,430 --> 01:11:48,000
situations when people

1947
01:11:54,470 --> 01:11:51,440
do end up sometimes with

1948
01:11:57,030 --> 01:11:54,480
at the very least like more of of kind

1949
01:11:59,030 --> 01:11:57,040
of a corroboratory element like you know

1950
01:12:01,270 --> 01:11:59,040
waking up in their clothes or or you

1951
01:12:04,390 --> 01:12:01,280
know like like something being out of

1952
01:12:05,830 --> 01:12:04,400
place or misaligned or things like that

1953
01:12:06,709 --> 01:12:05,840
um yeah

1954
01:12:07,510 --> 01:12:06,719
anyway

1955
01:12:11,189 --> 01:12:07,520
yeah

1956
01:12:15,030 --> 01:12:13,030
did you tell did you tell your parents

1957
01:12:19,430 --> 01:12:15,040
about that one

1958
01:12:23,510 --> 01:12:19,440
i'd like i did not tell my parents i did

1959
01:12:27,350 --> 01:12:23,520
not i did not i like i told

1960
01:12:29,830 --> 01:12:27,360
later i told my mom that i'd seen

1961
01:12:31,990 --> 01:12:29,840
like a weird being

1962
01:12:34,470 --> 01:12:32,000
but um

1963
01:12:39,990 --> 01:12:34,480
i didn't

1964
01:12:42,630 --> 01:12:40,000
i think even in trying to tell it to her

1965
01:12:44,950 --> 01:12:42,640
like i was kind of trying to play it off

1966
01:12:46,470 --> 01:12:44,960
um i like and i can't remember exactly

1967
01:12:48,550 --> 01:12:46,480
how that conversation went down but it

1968
01:12:50,709 --> 01:12:48,560
did not happen immediately and like it

1969
01:12:52,390 --> 01:12:50,719
was definitely not like

1970
01:12:53,830 --> 01:12:52,400
like we've got aliens in the house or

1971
01:12:56,470 --> 01:12:53,840
something like that like that was not

1972
01:12:59,510 --> 01:12:56,480
that was not it like i like

1973
01:13:02,550 --> 01:12:59,520
i i do remember an element of reportage

1974
01:13:05,110 --> 01:13:02,560
but like came later while we still lived

1975
01:13:06,790 --> 01:13:05,120
in that house like um

1976
01:13:09,030 --> 01:13:06,800
i saw something in the i think i said

1977
01:13:10,630 --> 01:13:09,040
something like i saw something weird in

1978
01:13:13,830 --> 01:13:10,640
the laundry room

1979
01:13:17,430 --> 01:13:13,840
but you know it didn't and my mom

1980
01:13:20,070 --> 01:13:17,440
is able to recall that that happened but

1981
01:13:22,229 --> 01:13:20,080
you know i think you know like again

1982
01:13:27,590 --> 01:13:22,239
like

1983
01:13:29,430 --> 01:13:27,600
if you're it's a 10 year old kid

1984
01:13:31,510 --> 01:13:29,440
telling his mom that they saw something

1985
01:13:32,950 --> 01:13:31,520
weird in the laundry room like

1986
01:13:36,070 --> 01:13:32,960
you know there's a very kind of

1987
01:13:38,149 --> 01:13:36,080
practical context of that from from pro

1988
01:13:40,550 --> 01:13:38,159
from her perspective probably where it's

1989
01:13:42,630 --> 01:13:40,560
like you know kids are creative or they

1990
01:13:44,790 --> 01:13:42,640
think they see something or you know the

1991
01:13:47,110 --> 01:13:44,800
imaginative mindset of a child and i

1992
01:13:48,630 --> 01:13:47,120
totally get that you know what i mean so

1993
01:13:50,550 --> 01:13:48,640
so i don't like

1994
01:13:51,669 --> 01:13:50,560
you know later on down the line she was

1995
01:13:53,990 --> 01:13:51,679
like i'm

1996
01:13:56,630 --> 01:13:54,000
like there was an element where

1997
01:13:58,149 --> 01:13:56,640
you know the sentiment was like like i'm

1998
01:14:01,030 --> 01:13:58,159
sorry i didn't latch onto that and i was

1999
01:14:04,950 --> 01:14:01,040
like well why would you how like like i

2000
01:14:07,030 --> 01:14:04,960
i get it like like it it doesn't

2001
01:14:09,750 --> 01:14:07,040
like um you know and this is also in

2002
01:14:11,910 --> 01:14:09,760
like the late 80s and

2003
01:14:14,630 --> 01:14:11,920
it hadn't kind of like those kinds of

2004
01:14:17,590 --> 01:14:14,640
stories hadn't reached the fever pitch

2005
01:14:19,910 --> 01:14:17,600
or in in terms of like

2006
01:14:22,390 --> 01:14:19,920
you know rural indiana that that they

2007
01:14:24,070 --> 01:14:22,400
would even five or ten years later with

2008
01:14:25,750 --> 01:14:24,080
things like the x-files or whatever you

2009
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:25,760
know what i mean like

2010
01:14:31,270 --> 01:14:29,280
and so i like were they were they booked

2011
01:14:33,030 --> 01:14:31,280
out yet at that point at all

2012
01:14:34,390 --> 01:14:33,040
i mean like you know and at your age

2013
01:14:36,550 --> 01:14:34,400
obviously you're not gonna you're i'm

2014
01:14:39,189 --> 01:14:36,560
like yeah i mean nothing about books

2015
01:14:41,590 --> 01:14:39,199
about it yeah i mean communion came out

2016
01:14:44,550 --> 01:14:41,600
and i mean i think community came out in

2017
01:14:46,229 --> 01:14:44,560
87 the book and and

2018
01:14:48,630 --> 01:14:46,239
and so this would have been like you

2019
01:14:50,870 --> 01:14:48,640
know this would have been like

2020
01:14:53,750 --> 01:14:50,880
i think this would have been like 88

2021
01:14:56,950 --> 01:14:53,760
maybe or 87 itself because if i was 9 or

2022
01:14:58,630 --> 01:14:56,960
10 i was born in 1978 so you know it was

2023
01:15:00,390 --> 01:14:58,640
like right around there when this would

2024
01:15:02,470 --> 01:15:00,400
have happened but

2025
01:15:04,870 --> 01:15:02,480
of course i wouldn't have like

2026
01:15:06,790 --> 01:15:04,880
i like i don't

2027
01:15:09,350 --> 01:15:06,800
like we certainly didn't have that book

2028
01:15:11,910 --> 01:15:09,360
in the house like i didn't

2029
01:15:15,110 --> 01:15:11,920
i don't remember having any awareness of

2030
01:15:18,149 --> 01:15:15,120
of him at that time you know like my

2031
01:15:20,390 --> 01:15:18,159
tv watching was pretty limited to like

2032
01:15:22,550 --> 01:15:20,400
saturday morning cartoons and like you

2033
01:15:23,590 --> 01:15:22,560
know stuff like that at that point

2034
01:15:26,470 --> 01:15:23,600
um

2035
01:15:30,390 --> 01:15:26,480
so i like

2036
01:15:31,830 --> 01:15:30,400
you know had i ever seen like

2037
01:15:33,910 --> 01:15:31,840
i don't think that i'd seen close

2038
01:15:36,070 --> 01:15:33,920
encounters at that point like maybe i'd

2039
01:15:37,590 --> 01:15:36,080
seen a depiction of something like that

2040
01:15:40,149 --> 01:15:37,600
right but like

2041
01:15:43,030 --> 01:15:40,159
but i don't know and it certainly didn't

2042
01:15:45,030 --> 01:15:43,040
look exactly like the beings that i saw

2043
01:15:46,470 --> 01:15:45,040
you know what i mean like

2044
01:15:47,510 --> 01:15:46,480
so

2045
01:15:49,030 --> 01:15:47,520
you know there's always that kind of

2046
01:15:50,790 --> 01:15:49,040
chicken in the egg problem where people

2047
01:15:52,790 --> 01:15:50,800
are gonna be like well you probably saw

2048
01:15:54,550 --> 01:15:52,800
something like that in popular culture

2049
01:15:56,470 --> 01:15:54,560
and at that moment it was like really

2050
01:15:58,070 --> 01:15:56,480
kind of like right on the line you know

2051
01:15:59,510 --> 01:15:58,080
what i mean

2052
01:16:00,790 --> 01:15:59,520
so right

2053
01:16:02,950 --> 01:16:00,800
yeah so

2054
01:16:04,310 --> 01:16:02,960
what was your next experience

2055
01:16:05,430 --> 01:16:04,320
okay um

2056
01:16:09,430 --> 01:16:05,440
so

2057
01:16:10,630 --> 01:16:09,440
i uh

2058
01:16:11,830 --> 01:16:10,640
i was at my

2059
01:16:16,229 --> 01:16:11,840
my uh

2060
01:16:17,189 --> 01:16:16,239
grandparents house in ohio and um

2061
01:16:18,830 --> 01:16:17,199
and

2062
01:16:21,590 --> 01:16:18,840
i was

2063
01:16:24,630 --> 01:16:21,600
upstairs and

2064
01:16:26,149 --> 01:16:24,640
my my mom and my stepdad and my

2065
01:16:27,910 --> 01:16:26,159
grandparents

2066
01:16:30,070 --> 01:16:27,920
and one of my aunts i can't remember

2067
01:16:31,510 --> 01:16:30,080
which one were in the living room and

2068
01:16:32,790 --> 01:16:31,520
they were talking like after dinner or

2069
01:16:36,229 --> 01:16:32,800
something like that and i was upstairs

2070
01:16:38,390 --> 01:16:36,239
like playing with toys and um

2071
01:16:40,470 --> 01:16:38,400
this is a really again like a really

2072
01:16:43,590 --> 01:16:40,480
weird situation i

2073
01:16:45,830 --> 01:16:43,600
um i saw

2074
01:16:47,830 --> 01:16:45,840
like there were two like like spare

2075
01:16:50,149 --> 01:16:47,840
bedrooms one like used to be my mom's

2076
01:16:51,830 --> 01:16:50,159
bedroom one used to be my aunt's bedroom

2077
01:16:53,110 --> 01:16:51,840
and there's like a hallway and so i was

2078
01:16:53,990 --> 01:16:53,120
in the one room

2079
01:16:59,270 --> 01:16:54,000
and

2080
01:17:01,510 --> 01:16:59,280
positioned in such a way that i could

2081
01:17:03,270 --> 01:17:01,520
see into the other room i look into the

2082
01:17:04,149 --> 01:17:03,280
other room and like this

2083
01:17:05,189 --> 01:17:04,159
weird

2084
01:17:07,830 --> 01:17:05,199
portal

2085
01:17:10,709 --> 01:17:07,840
opens up in the other room

2086
01:17:13,110 --> 01:17:10,719
and this strange

2087
01:17:16,630 --> 01:17:13,120
like tallish being

2088
01:17:20,470 --> 01:17:16,640
that had kind of like a fuzzed out face

2089
01:17:23,189 --> 01:17:20,480
comes through the this portal and like

2090
01:17:24,630 --> 01:17:23,199
it comes like straight for me

2091
01:17:26,070 --> 01:17:24,640
um

2092
01:17:27,990 --> 01:17:26,080
i don't know like

2093
01:17:30,709 --> 01:17:28,000
my first guess would be that it was a

2094
01:17:32,550 --> 01:17:30,719
tall gray but i'm not sure

2095
01:17:34,149 --> 01:17:32,560
fuzzed out face i don't know what was up

2096
01:17:36,229 --> 01:17:34,159
with the fuzzed out face

2097
01:17:37,669 --> 01:17:36,239
it was almost as if there's like

2098
01:17:41,830 --> 01:17:37,679
like

2099
01:17:44,630 --> 01:17:41,840
masking

2100
01:17:46,470 --> 01:17:44,640
technology over the face i don't know i

2101
01:17:50,070 --> 01:17:46,480
don't know how or why

2102
01:17:52,229 --> 01:17:50,080
um but it was like that weird

2103
01:17:54,390 --> 01:17:52,239
besides the you know besides the face

2104
01:17:55,910 --> 01:17:54,400
was everything else black because right

2105
01:17:57,430 --> 01:17:55,920
you know i i think

2106
01:17:59,189 --> 01:17:57,440
cause i know lackin

2107
01:18:00,870 --> 01:17:59,199
in my mind i start thinking well maybe

2108
01:18:02,630 --> 01:18:00,880
it was something that was being rendered

2109
01:18:04,470 --> 01:18:02,640
in the face you know all the black was

2110
01:18:05,750 --> 01:18:04,480
easily rendered but the face was not

2111
01:18:07,189 --> 01:18:05,760
rendered so it was just kind of like

2112
01:18:09,910 --> 01:18:07,199
incomplete

2113
01:18:11,510 --> 01:18:09,920
total speculation yeah that's possible i

2114
01:18:13,350 --> 01:18:11,520
mean there's it's possible that it was

2115
01:18:14,310 --> 01:18:13,360
some kind of that there was some kind of

2116
01:18:29,510 --> 01:18:14,320
like

2117
01:18:31,350 --> 01:18:29,520
some kind of portaling device so it

2118
01:18:32,310 --> 01:18:31,360
you know clearly something that that's

2119
01:18:33,270 --> 01:18:32,320
like

2120
01:18:36,070 --> 01:18:33,280
so

2121
01:18:39,270 --> 01:18:36,080
you know as as science fiction writers

2122
01:18:41,590 --> 01:18:39,280
and people often quote you know like

2123
01:18:44,470 --> 01:18:41,600
sufficiently advanced technology will

2124
01:18:46,709 --> 01:18:44,480
appear as if it was magic right and like

2125
01:18:48,630 --> 01:18:46,719
clearly portal technology would would

2126
01:18:50,070 --> 01:18:48,640
fit into that kind of a framework so

2127
01:18:51,030 --> 01:18:50,080
whatever it was

2128
01:18:52,550 --> 01:18:51,040
so

2129
01:18:54,950 --> 01:18:52,560
walk it comes out of this like weird

2130
01:18:56,950 --> 01:18:54,960
portal starts kind of tearing right for

2131
01:18:59,189 --> 01:18:56,960
me i like

2132
01:19:02,550 --> 01:18:59,199
i run for the stairs

2133
01:19:03,910 --> 01:19:02,560
i start i get down about half the stairs

2134
01:19:04,870 --> 01:19:03,920
and then

2135
01:19:06,870 --> 01:19:04,880
um

2136
01:19:08,870 --> 01:19:06,880
there was like a weird time dilation

2137
01:19:11,350 --> 01:19:08,880
effect like it seemed it felt like

2138
01:19:12,470 --> 01:19:11,360
everything started to slow down

2139
01:19:14,709 --> 01:19:12,480
um

2140
01:19:17,430 --> 01:19:14,719
and it felt like i was like moving

2141
01:19:19,510 --> 01:19:17,440
through molasses somehow like i'd been

2142
01:19:20,950 --> 01:19:19,520
running like full tilt down the stairs

2143
01:19:21,669 --> 01:19:20,960
to try to get

2144
01:19:24,630 --> 01:19:21,679
to

2145
01:19:26,790 --> 01:19:24,640
like my family in the living room right

2146
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:26,800
and um and all of a sudden it was just

2147
01:19:29,189 --> 01:19:27,650
like

2148
01:19:30,229 --> 01:19:29,199
[Music]

2149
01:19:31,110 --> 01:19:30,239
and

2150
01:19:32,709 --> 01:19:31,120
um

2151
01:19:34,709 --> 01:19:32,719
and then

2152
01:19:37,110 --> 01:19:34,719
things were very slow and it was almost

2153
01:19:38,709 --> 01:19:37,120
as if i was kind of like inert

2154
01:19:40,470 --> 01:19:38,719
and like my last

2155
01:19:43,590 --> 01:19:40,480
memory from that is

2156
01:19:45,189 --> 01:19:43,600
being taken out the front door

2157
01:19:47,510 --> 01:19:45,199
that was right next to this living room

2158
01:19:49,030 --> 01:19:47,520
and looking into the living room and my

2159
01:19:50,790 --> 01:19:49,040
family that we're all sitting there

2160
01:19:53,669 --> 01:19:50,800
having a conversation in the living room

2161
01:19:55,030 --> 01:19:53,679
it was all as if they had all been like

2162
01:19:56,790 --> 01:19:55,040
turned off

2163
01:19:58,630 --> 01:19:56,800
like i looked in there and a couple of

2164
01:20:00,229 --> 01:19:58,640
my family members like had their heads

2165
01:20:01,030 --> 01:20:00,239
back like in the chairs that they were

2166
01:20:03,110 --> 01:20:01,040
in

2167
01:20:05,910 --> 01:20:03,120
and a couple of them were like we're

2168
01:20:08,070 --> 01:20:05,920
like that as if as if they were all

2169
01:20:09,350 --> 01:20:08,080
rendered unconscious

2170
01:20:11,910 --> 01:20:09,360
which was like

2171
01:20:15,030 --> 01:20:11,920
like even more disturbing

2172
01:20:16,310 --> 01:20:15,040
than being itself um

2173
01:20:17,110 --> 01:20:16,320
um so

2174
01:20:18,709 --> 01:20:17,120
so

2175
01:20:21,189 --> 01:20:18,719
you know that that would be the next

2176
01:20:23,110 --> 01:20:21,199
memory that i that i remember the next

2177
01:20:24,709 --> 01:20:23,120
after that was let me just stop you one

2178
01:20:26,550 --> 01:20:24,719
second jay so what did the portal look

2179
01:20:29,590 --> 01:20:26,560
like specifically as much as you can

2180
01:20:31,030 --> 01:20:29,600
remember sure um yeah like

2181
01:20:32,470 --> 01:20:31,040
that was um

2182
01:20:39,189 --> 01:20:32,480
it was

2183
01:20:41,830 --> 01:20:39,199
and um as i recall and and again this is

2184
01:20:42,950 --> 01:20:41,840
like 30 years ago but like

2185
01:20:49,750 --> 01:20:42,960
i

2186
01:20:55,830 --> 01:20:49,760
and

2187
01:20:58,390 --> 01:20:55,840
through it

2188
01:21:01,669 --> 01:20:58,400
but i don't really remember the elements

2189
01:21:02,470 --> 01:21:01,679
that were through it if that makes sense

2190
01:21:03,270 --> 01:21:02,480
um

2191
01:21:07,910 --> 01:21:03,280
and

2192
01:21:11,350 --> 01:21:07,920
reach the floor

2193
01:21:14,390 --> 01:21:11,360
so like yes and like it was maybe like

2194
01:21:17,110 --> 01:21:14,400
six or eight feet into that room and

2195
01:21:18,950 --> 01:21:17,120
i would say that it was like maybe

2196
01:21:20,229 --> 01:21:18,960
six and a half feet tall i mean maybe

2197
01:21:21,590 --> 01:21:20,239
six feet tall

2198
01:21:24,550 --> 01:21:21,600
or something like that and maybe like

2199
01:21:26,070 --> 01:21:24,560
six inches like off the floor

2200
01:21:28,229 --> 01:21:26,080
and maybe

2201
01:21:30,470 --> 01:21:28,239
uh

2202
01:21:33,030 --> 01:21:30,480
maybe three feet wide or something like

2203
01:21:36,070 --> 01:21:33,040
that but again kind of like an elongated

2204
01:21:37,990 --> 01:21:36,080
egg shape almost kind of like that

2205
01:21:40,390 --> 01:21:38,000
fuzzy edges

2206
01:21:42,629 --> 01:21:40,400
i have in my family i have a cousin who

2207
01:21:45,270 --> 01:21:42,639
had um

2208
01:21:47,110 --> 01:21:45,280
it was her and her husband

2209
01:21:48,470 --> 01:21:47,120
and all of a sudden this i guess it was

2210
01:21:52,790 --> 01:21:48,480
like a

2211
01:21:56,229 --> 01:21:52,800
the ceiling down like that and then a

2212
01:21:57,750 --> 01:21:56,239
being stuck its arm out and in her head

2213
01:21:59,510 --> 01:21:57,760
with her husband in her head she just

2214
01:22:01,270 --> 01:21:59,520
said i don't want to see this and it

2215
01:22:03,430 --> 01:22:01,280
stuck his arm back in and then just

2216
01:22:05,030 --> 01:22:03,440
disappeared um then we have pulled we

2217
01:22:07,270 --> 01:22:05,040
have skinwalker ranch where they

2218
01:22:08,950 --> 01:22:07,280
apparently saw a portal open and you

2219
01:22:10,950 --> 01:22:08,960
want to get even more controversial it

2220
01:22:12,870 --> 01:22:10,960
was a big foot like creature that came

2221
01:22:14,709 --> 01:22:12,880
out of it skin walker also had polar

2222
01:22:15,990 --> 01:22:14,719
guys activity so it's like and we've

2223
01:22:17,990 --> 01:22:16,000
talked about and i heard you talk about

2224
01:22:20,870 --> 01:22:18,000
how this might all be connected which we

2225
01:22:22,390 --> 01:22:20,880
can talk about later sure but moving on

2226
01:22:24,470 --> 01:22:22,400
and they took it out your front took you

2227
01:22:25,750 --> 01:22:24,480
out the front door is another odd detail

2228
01:22:27,350 --> 01:22:25,760
it's like they turn off the whole

2229
01:22:28,709 --> 01:22:27,360
neighborhood

2230
01:22:30,709 --> 01:22:28,719
super weird

2231
01:22:33,030 --> 01:22:30,719
well and at the same time like i had

2232
01:22:35,110 --> 01:22:33,040
this weird sense as it was as if time

2233
01:22:36,310 --> 01:22:35,120
had slowed down

2234
01:22:38,870 --> 01:22:36,320
and like

2235
01:22:40,310 --> 01:22:38,880
you know again it it gets into that

2236
01:22:42,470 --> 01:22:40,320
thing where it's just like

2237
01:22:44,310 --> 01:22:42,480
is that just completely subjective was

2238
01:22:46,709 --> 01:22:44,320
that some kind of like

2239
01:22:48,229 --> 01:22:46,719
like sorry for the sirens new jersey but

2240
01:23:01,990 --> 01:22:48,239
like

2241
01:23:03,590 --> 01:23:02,000
were just making me drowsy is that why

2242
01:23:06,229 --> 01:23:03,600
time seemed slow

2243
01:23:08,070 --> 01:23:06,239
but like something along those lines

2244
01:23:11,189 --> 01:23:08,080
like it seemed to be kind of like tied

2245
01:23:13,430 --> 01:23:11,199
into why it wouldn't be a heart like why

2246
01:23:15,750 --> 01:23:13,440
walking out the front door

2247
01:23:18,390 --> 01:23:15,760
uh maybe wouldn't be a problem

2248
01:23:20,950 --> 01:23:18,400
and i don't i don't know and like maybe

2249
01:23:23,510 --> 01:23:20,960
it's also possible that it's just like a

2250
01:23:25,110 --> 01:23:23,520
very superior form of surveillance where

2251
01:23:27,110 --> 01:23:25,120
it's just like they really just mapped

2252
01:23:28,709 --> 01:23:27,120
it out and they can see

2253
01:23:30,390 --> 01:23:28,719
all 80 people that would have been on

2254
01:23:32,229 --> 01:23:30,400
that block and none of them were looking

2255
01:23:34,870 --> 01:23:32,239
at the same or i don't i don't you know

2256
01:23:36,470 --> 01:23:34,880
i have no idea you know

2257
01:23:37,830 --> 01:23:36,480
um no yeah

2258
01:23:39,990 --> 01:23:37,840
yeah

2259
01:23:42,470 --> 01:23:40,000
so um did you want to go on to like the

2260
01:23:44,229 --> 01:23:42,480
next event or like yeah if anybody has

2261
01:23:45,910 --> 01:23:44,239
any questions up until this point i was

2262
01:23:47,350 --> 01:23:45,920
gonna go at the end

2263
01:23:49,270 --> 01:23:47,360
um but

2264
01:23:51,590 --> 01:23:49,280
i don't see anything jumping out and the

2265
01:23:53,430 --> 01:23:51,600
reason i okay the super chat ones jump

2266
01:23:55,590 --> 01:23:53,440
out because i'm blind and i need to get

2267
01:23:56,950 --> 01:23:55,600
glasses um

2268
01:23:58,870 --> 01:23:56,960
but yeah we could just

2269
01:24:00,149 --> 01:23:58,880
quickly just you know

2270
01:24:01,510 --> 01:24:00,159
i know you've thought about it i've

2271
01:24:03,350 --> 01:24:01,520
thought about and i don't know if it's

2272
01:24:05,110 --> 01:24:03,360
the answer that all of this is connected

2273
01:24:07,270 --> 01:24:05,120
and i know people there are people that

2274
01:24:08,950 --> 01:24:07,280
insist it's all the same thing it's one

2275
01:24:10,470 --> 01:24:08,960
phenomenon

2276
01:24:12,229 --> 01:24:10,480
and i'm not so sure i don't know i mean

2277
01:24:15,270 --> 01:24:12,239
i'm not so sure about any of this but i

2278
01:24:17,750 --> 01:24:15,280
know you have thoughts i i'm i'm open to

2279
01:24:19,830 --> 01:24:17,760
it but i don't know

2280
01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:19,840
i definitely i mean i definitely have a

2281
01:24:23,669 --> 01:24:22,320
lot i i've thought about it a lot and

2282
01:24:25,189 --> 01:24:23,679
you know i

2283
01:24:27,110 --> 01:24:25,199
i think that

2284
01:24:34,790 --> 01:24:27,120
we

2285
01:24:38,149 --> 01:24:34,800
very rich diverse

2286
01:24:39,669 --> 01:24:38,159
cosmos you know and that there are

2287
01:24:42,790 --> 01:24:39,679
possibly

2288
01:24:45,830 --> 01:24:42,800
a lot of different

2289
01:24:48,229 --> 01:24:45,840
types of life that we just

2290
01:24:49,030 --> 01:24:48,239
have like haven't quite acknowledged you

2291
01:24:50,950 --> 01:24:49,040
know

2292
01:24:53,830 --> 01:24:50,960
i mean and

2293
01:24:58,470 --> 01:24:53,840
there's often this kind of like

2294
01:25:00,070 --> 01:24:58,480
there's often this gap where where

2295
01:25:02,070 --> 01:25:00,080
it takes a while for something to get on

2296
01:25:04,229 --> 01:25:02,080
the record and maybe it's just a like

2297
01:25:05,750 --> 01:25:04,239
you know it's it's detection it's like

2298
01:25:07,350 --> 01:25:05,760
how much evidence do you have you know

2299
01:25:08,870 --> 01:25:07,360
what i mean like

2300
01:25:20,870 --> 01:25:08,880
like

2301
01:25:23,270 --> 01:25:20,880
all great panda the same thing

2302
01:25:25,750 --> 01:25:23,280
yeah and so you know and it's just and

2303
01:25:29,510 --> 01:25:25,760
it's and why was that you know but like

2304
01:25:32,390 --> 01:25:29,520
partially because like you know like

2305
01:25:34,709 --> 01:25:32,400
probably a bunch of you know european

2306
01:25:36,629 --> 01:25:34,719
people scientists at that time hadn't

2307
01:25:38,070 --> 01:25:36,639
run into one yet you know what i mean

2308
01:25:39,590 --> 01:25:38,080
and so like

2309
01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:39,600
it was lore

2310
01:25:45,110 --> 01:25:42,880
and and so you know i and as our

2311
01:25:47,030 --> 01:25:45,120
technology is increasing to the point of

2312
01:25:49,590 --> 01:25:47,040
like being able to

2313
01:25:51,910 --> 01:25:49,600
like have advanced forms of detection

2314
01:25:53,669 --> 01:25:51,920
and like being able to kind of like

2315
01:25:56,550 --> 01:25:53,679
you know like see

2316
01:25:58,390 --> 01:25:56,560
you know more of the light spectrum see

2317
01:26:01,910 --> 01:25:58,400
you know like

2318
01:26:07,430 --> 01:26:05,430
radiation or or like like like um you

2319
01:26:09,110 --> 01:26:07,440
know gravitational waves or how like

2320
01:26:11,669 --> 01:26:09,120
however you frame it i'm not a scientist

2321
01:26:13,189 --> 01:26:11,679
but you know like like the rf spectrum

2322
01:26:15,430 --> 01:26:13,199
like all the stuff you know like we're

2323
01:26:18,550 --> 01:26:15,440
expanding our abilities in terms of like

2324
01:26:20,229 --> 01:26:18,560
what we can see or or sense

2325
01:26:23,270 --> 01:26:20,239
and um

2326
01:26:25,590 --> 01:26:23,280
and but science in some ways doesn't

2327
01:26:26,550 --> 01:26:25,600
seem like it's caught up with like

2328
01:26:37,270 --> 01:26:26,560
like

2329
01:26:38,390 --> 01:26:37,280
know

2330
01:26:41,430 --> 01:26:38,400
years and years and years of

2331
01:26:44,149 --> 01:26:41,440
evolutionary development like has

2332
01:26:46,470 --> 01:26:44,159
gifted us with the ability to sense

2333
01:26:48,629 --> 01:26:46,480
danger you know what i mean like if we

2334
01:26:52,229 --> 01:26:48,639
can sense any like it seems like we have

2335
01:26:53,270 --> 01:26:52,239
an extraordinary capability of of

2336
01:26:58,870 --> 01:26:53,280
of

2337
01:27:00,390 --> 01:26:58,880
like a problematic situation or

2338
01:27:02,629 --> 01:27:00,400
something like that and it seems to kind

2339
01:27:04,870 --> 01:27:02,639
of like maybe trigger something where

2340
01:27:06,070 --> 01:27:04,880
where all of a sudden like some of these

2341
01:27:07,990 --> 01:27:06,080
other

2342
01:27:10,470 --> 01:27:08,000
things that are usually filtered out

2343
01:27:12,629 --> 01:27:10,480
like like can come into play or

2344
01:27:14,790 --> 01:27:12,639
something like that if that makes sense

2345
01:27:16,709 --> 01:27:14,800
no it does and i don't know if

2346
01:27:18,229 --> 01:27:16,719
if this one experience you had you me

2347
01:27:19,590 --> 01:27:18,239
you skipped over it's later but you

2348
01:27:22,870 --> 01:27:19,600
talked about

2349
01:27:24,229 --> 01:27:22,880
seeing another boy playing with your

2350
01:27:26,870 --> 01:27:24,239
toys

2351
01:27:28,470 --> 01:27:26,880
and it just made me think of exactly

2352
01:27:30,550 --> 01:27:28,480
what you're talking about there's

2353
01:27:32,390 --> 01:27:30,560
another world that's right beyond our

2354
01:27:34,629 --> 01:27:32,400
ability to sense in the electromagnetic

2355
01:27:35,430 --> 01:27:34,639
spectrum and sometimes the worlds cross

2356
01:27:37,669 --> 01:27:35,440
over

2357
01:27:40,149 --> 01:27:37,679
and it's really it's like

2358
01:27:42,310 --> 01:27:40,159
you know it's a really

2359
01:27:43,910 --> 01:27:42,320
interesting story i mean tell the story

2360
01:27:45,590 --> 01:27:43,920
about i don't know how old you were when

2361
01:27:46,950 --> 01:27:45,600
you had when you started yeah that's

2362
01:27:49,110 --> 01:27:46,960
that's back in that haunted house in

2363
01:27:51,189 --> 01:27:49,120
mishawaka and like what haunted house

2364
01:27:53,110 --> 01:27:51,199
like i i kind of like playfully term it

2365
01:27:53,910 --> 01:27:53,120
like that but you know it was right so

2366
01:28:01,590 --> 01:27:53,920
like

2367
01:28:02,870 --> 01:28:01,600
i um and i woke up one night late and um

2368
01:28:05,910 --> 01:28:02,880
and

2369
01:28:08,950 --> 01:28:05,920
my like a couple of my like toy cars or

2370
01:28:10,870 --> 01:28:08,960
something were out on the floor right

2371
01:28:13,110 --> 01:28:10,880
and like

2372
01:28:16,390 --> 01:28:13,120
and i already knew that that was like

2373
01:28:18,950 --> 01:28:16,400
not right because like i cleaned them up

2374
01:28:21,750 --> 01:28:18,960
i like and so

2375
01:28:23,750 --> 01:28:21,760
and then i look and then there's this

2376
01:28:25,530 --> 01:28:23,760
there's like an apparition

2377
01:28:26,709 --> 01:28:25,540
of a boy

2378
01:28:28,790 --> 01:28:26,719
[Music]

2379
01:28:31,270 --> 01:28:28,800
that was about my age

2380
01:28:33,750 --> 01:28:31,280
and it was like you and as he was

2381
01:28:36,390 --> 01:28:33,760
pushing the cars across so like

2382
01:28:37,830 --> 01:28:36,400
he was kind of like you know like

2383
01:28:39,669 --> 01:28:37,840
not

2384
01:28:41,270 --> 01:28:39,679
i could kind of see through him but i

2385
01:28:43,110 --> 01:28:41,280
could but like he definitely had like

2386
01:28:45,750 --> 01:28:43,120
details and stuff like this and there's

2387
01:28:48,229 --> 01:28:45,760
like a kid right and like

2388
01:28:52,390 --> 01:28:50,950
i was about six and he looked to be

2389
01:28:54,229 --> 01:28:52,400
about six

2390
01:28:55,430 --> 01:28:54,239
okay and

2391
01:28:56,950 --> 01:28:55,440
um

2392
01:28:58,229 --> 01:28:56,960
and

2393
01:29:00,310 --> 01:28:58,239
there's

2394
01:29:01,830 --> 01:29:00,320
and like the car moves across the floor

2395
01:29:03,669 --> 01:29:01,840
like he's like touching it and like the

2396
01:29:05,910 --> 01:29:03,679
car like the little toy car like a

2397
01:29:09,030 --> 01:29:05,920
little hot wheels or whatever like

2398
01:29:11,510 --> 01:29:09,040
and i look at him and then he senses me

2399
01:29:14,470 --> 01:29:11,520
and looks up and he

2400
01:29:16,550 --> 01:29:14,480
and we make eye contact right

2401
01:29:19,110 --> 01:29:16,560
and like and he starts

2402
01:29:20,870 --> 01:29:19,120
and he opens his mouth

2403
01:29:23,830 --> 01:29:20,880
and it's almost like it was totally

2404
01:29:25,510 --> 01:29:23,840
unintelligible it was almost like like a

2405
01:29:27,430 --> 01:29:25,520
it's almost like an am radio station

2406
01:29:29,110 --> 01:29:27,440
that was just out of phase

2407
01:29:31,910 --> 01:29:29,120
and so it just like

2408
01:29:32,790 --> 01:29:31,920
sounded like weird static almost like i

2409
01:29:35,830 --> 01:29:32,800
couldn't

2410
01:29:38,550 --> 01:29:35,840
he was clearly trying to speak to me

2411
01:29:41,270 --> 01:29:38,560
and but like it wasn't telepathy it was

2412
01:29:43,110 --> 01:29:41,280
like it was the way that like

2413
01:29:46,390 --> 01:29:43,120
the way that i heard it the way that i

2414
01:29:49,750 --> 01:29:46,400
perceived it was almost like

2415
01:29:51,030 --> 01:29:49,760
like a really disturbing kind of static

2416
01:29:53,350 --> 01:29:51,040
or like

2417
01:29:55,110 --> 01:29:53,360
like out of like out of like out of

2418
01:29:56,709 --> 01:29:55,120
phase radius out of phase that's exactly

2419
01:29:57,910 --> 01:29:56,719
what i'm thinking something out of just

2420
01:29:59,030 --> 01:29:57,920
out of phase

2421
01:30:01,669 --> 01:29:59,040
yeah

2422
01:30:02,790 --> 01:30:01,679
um and um what it makes me think of jay

2423
01:30:04,310 --> 01:30:02,800
it makes me think of the movie the

2424
01:30:07,510 --> 01:30:04,320
others

2425
01:30:10,629 --> 01:30:07,520
yeah yeah you know yeah absolutely and

2426
01:30:12,790 --> 01:30:10,639
like you know and like again like like a

2427
01:30:15,270 --> 01:30:12,800
lot of this comes into speculation but

2428
01:30:17,030 --> 01:30:15,280
it really does seem it you know like

2429
01:30:18,390 --> 01:30:17,040
from all these situations like the

2430
01:30:20,470 --> 01:30:18,400
portaling

2431
01:30:22,390 --> 01:30:20,480
you know and like it's hard not to draw

2432
01:30:24,709 --> 01:30:22,400
connections and and some of these

2433
01:30:27,669 --> 01:30:24,719
definitely seem like different

2434
01:30:31,110 --> 01:30:27,679
classes of beings or class or different

2435
01:30:33,030 --> 01:30:31,120
types of of entities or intelligences

2436
01:30:36,390 --> 01:30:33,040
but at the same time

2437
01:30:39,189 --> 01:30:36,400
a lot of it still points to this

2438
01:30:41,030 --> 01:30:39,199
to the possibility that

2439
01:30:45,270 --> 01:30:41,040
or maybe the probability

2440
01:30:46,950 --> 01:30:45,280
that there are these other kind of like

2441
01:30:49,669 --> 01:30:46,960
almost like different radio stations

2442
01:30:51,270 --> 01:30:49,679
that are just adjacent to us that like

2443
01:30:53,510 --> 01:30:51,280
that have like a whole

2444
01:30:55,990 --> 01:30:53,520
ecosystem on right or something like

2445
01:30:59,189 --> 01:30:56,000
that and like i don't understand it like

2446
01:31:00,550 --> 01:30:59,199
i have no idea like how or why but you

2447
01:31:02,390 --> 01:31:00,560
know like

2448
01:31:05,110 --> 01:31:02,400
it seems as if it's

2449
01:31:07,750 --> 01:31:05,120
it like from what i hear from like the

2450
01:31:09,990 --> 01:31:07,760
the bit of research i've done it it's it

2451
01:31:12,070 --> 01:31:10,000
sounds like it's theoretically possible

2452
01:31:13,830 --> 01:31:12,080
like i like i'm not i'm not an expert in

2453
01:31:15,350 --> 01:31:13,840
that kind of a field but

2454
01:31:16,470 --> 01:31:15,360
you know like

2455
01:31:25,830 --> 01:31:16,480
it

2456
01:31:27,830 --> 01:31:25,840
seems to be targeted and kind of placed

2457
01:31:30,149 --> 01:31:27,840
almost out of phase with our normal

2458
01:31:32,550 --> 01:31:30,159
day-to-day reality or people see

2459
01:31:34,470 --> 01:31:32,560
something that the where where

2460
01:31:35,750 --> 01:31:34,480
that kind of

2461
01:31:39,510 --> 01:31:35,760
where there

2462
01:31:43,430 --> 01:31:41,430
like i've i've thought about this before

2463
01:31:45,750 --> 01:31:43,440
and like you know again this is total

2464
01:31:49,110 --> 01:31:45,760
speculation i have no idea

2465
01:31:51,430 --> 01:31:49,120
but like it's it seems like maybe that's

2466
01:31:54,229 --> 01:31:51,440
the case that there are these other kind

2467
01:31:56,390 --> 01:31:54,239
of like radio station stations that that

2468
01:31:59,189 --> 01:31:56,400
were like like

2469
01:32:01,189 --> 01:31:59,199
something could be occupying like a

2470
01:32:02,550 --> 01:32:01,199
space it could be kind of like right

2471
01:32:04,149 --> 01:32:02,560
next to you

2472
01:32:05,830 --> 01:32:04,159
but it's on another kind of like

2473
01:32:07,750 --> 01:32:05,840
fundamental layer of reality or

2474
01:32:10,870 --> 01:32:07,760
something like that right and so it

2475
01:32:13,030 --> 01:32:10,880
could seem like it blips in and it's

2476
01:32:14,550 --> 01:32:13,040
it's almost like not like necessarily

2477
01:32:16,629 --> 01:32:14,560
teleporting because what it's really

2478
01:32:19,110 --> 01:32:16,639
doing is almost like downshifting or

2479
01:32:19,990 --> 01:32:19,120
upshifting or something i don't know

2480
01:32:20,790 --> 01:32:20,000
um

2481
01:32:25,669 --> 01:32:20,800
and

2482
01:32:28,709 --> 01:32:25,679
when we hear about this portaling or

2483
01:32:30,950 --> 01:32:28,719
this or ships or people even being like

2484
01:32:33,350 --> 01:32:30,960
levitated and floated out through a wall

2485
01:32:35,669 --> 01:32:33,360
or something like that it seems that

2486
01:32:38,629 --> 01:32:35,679
that you know whatever

2487
01:32:41,110 --> 01:32:38,639
like this advanced technology it is a

2488
01:32:43,590 --> 01:32:41,120
lot of it is taking advantage

2489
01:32:45,910 --> 01:32:43,600
of you know a lot of it starts to make

2490
01:32:47,910 --> 01:32:45,920
sense if you think like well

2491
01:32:49,990 --> 01:32:47,920
you know they're like maybe they can

2492
01:32:52,229 --> 01:32:50,000
kind of like manipulate these like

2493
01:32:54,070 --> 01:32:52,239
little shifts and and phase if you want

2494
01:32:55,910 --> 01:32:54,080
to call it that or something like that

2495
01:32:57,590 --> 01:32:55,920
and it could help explain like how could

2496
01:32:59,750 --> 01:32:57,600
somebody go through a wall how could

2497
01:33:02,070 --> 01:32:59,760
somebody like portal in how could you

2498
01:33:04,390 --> 01:33:02,080
know how could these things happen um

2499
01:33:05,830 --> 01:33:04,400
and maybe you know maybe you know people

2500
01:33:07,669 --> 01:33:05,840
speculate like

2501
01:33:09,270 --> 01:33:07,679
like oh it's the nuclear stuff like

2502
01:33:11,350 --> 01:33:09,280
that's why they're paying attention to

2503
01:33:13,910 --> 01:33:11,360
us or something like that right and like

2504
01:33:15,030 --> 01:33:13,920
maybe another layer of that is like

2505
01:33:17,030 --> 01:33:15,040
you know

2506
01:33:18,950 --> 01:33:17,040
what if we were also very close to

2507
01:33:23,030 --> 01:33:18,960
figuring that out what if we were very

2508
01:33:25,270 --> 01:33:23,040
close to figuring out how to the like

2509
01:33:27,990 --> 01:33:25,280
becoming aware of like this whole other

2510
01:33:30,229 --> 01:33:28,000
living ecosystem like this whole other

2511
01:33:32,709 --> 01:33:30,239
living environment that is like just

2512
01:33:33,590 --> 01:33:32,719
next to us somehow or something

2513
01:33:35,510 --> 01:33:33,600
yeah

2514
01:33:38,070 --> 01:33:35,520
total speculation total speculation but

2515
01:33:39,510 --> 01:33:38,080
luis lawless louis lozano talks about

2516
01:33:41,830 --> 01:33:39,520
that a lot i don't know if you listen to

2517
01:33:43,669 --> 01:33:41,840
his interviews he's like he he proposes

2518
01:33:45,189 --> 01:33:43,679
that possibility that we're living in a

2519
01:33:47,669 --> 01:33:45,199
world and this other world is just

2520
01:33:49,910 --> 01:33:47,679
outside of our ability to perceive

2521
01:33:51,990 --> 01:33:49,920
and the technology is catching up to

2522
01:33:54,149 --> 01:33:52,000
where we're able to perceive it i don't

2523
01:33:56,229 --> 01:33:54,159
know what technology he's speaking about

2524
01:33:58,070 --> 01:33:56,239
um but yeah i mean maybe and maybe

2525
01:33:59,750 --> 01:33:58,080
that's why the maybe why that's

2526
01:34:01,430 --> 01:33:59,760
supposedly why

2527
01:34:02,790 --> 01:34:01,440
contact is increasing or as far as

2528
01:34:04,390 --> 01:34:02,800
sightings

2529
01:34:08,390 --> 01:34:04,400
i'm going to take a question related to

2530
01:34:10,470 --> 01:34:08,400
what you said earlier from sure kristin

2531
01:34:12,790 --> 01:34:10,480
have you ever met anyone else and yeah

2532
01:34:15,350 --> 01:34:12,800
christian earlier had given a super chat

2533
01:34:18,229 --> 01:34:15,360
question who is christine

2534
01:34:21,270 --> 01:34:18,239
kirsten is um

2535
01:34:22,950 --> 01:34:21,280
oh kirsten the kristen blackburn is

2536
01:34:25,750 --> 01:34:22,960
another co-founder of the experiencer

2537
01:34:28,310 --> 01:34:25,760
group okay so i like i i know i know

2538
01:34:29,350 --> 01:34:28,320
kirsten and kirsten kirsten and i both

2539
01:34:31,990 --> 01:34:29,360
used to do

2540
01:34:34,629 --> 01:34:32,000
work for richard dolan's site um back in

2541
01:34:36,550 --> 01:34:34,639
the day and so christian was what was

2542
01:34:38,629 --> 01:34:36,560
richard's primary assistant for a while

2543
01:34:40,149 --> 01:34:38,639
things like that but like

2544
01:34:42,550 --> 01:34:40,159
so anyway let's see

2545
01:34:44,950 --> 01:34:42,560
so that's really cute thanks kirsten uh

2546
01:34:47,030 --> 01:34:44,960
question have you met other

2547
01:34:48,629 --> 01:34:47,040
anyone else described the strange tilted

2548
01:34:50,950 --> 01:34:48,639
way that the gray was moving did it

2549
01:34:53,270 --> 01:34:50,960
remind you at all of an insect spider

2550
01:34:55,109 --> 01:34:53,280
yeah it did um

2551
01:34:56,229 --> 01:34:55,119
and um

2552
01:34:58,870 --> 01:34:56,239
and

2553
01:35:01,590 --> 01:34:58,880
i have heard

2554
01:35:04,310 --> 01:35:01,600
other people um there um

2555
01:35:10,709 --> 01:35:08,310
there is um another experiencer on on

2556
01:35:12,390 --> 01:35:10,719
like um that i know through um the

2557
01:35:14,470 --> 01:35:12,400
support groups on the experiencer group

2558
01:35:15,590 --> 01:35:14,480
site and

2559
01:35:17,669 --> 01:35:15,600
he

2560
01:35:20,229 --> 01:35:17,679
you know i won't name him and i won't

2561
01:35:22,390 --> 01:35:20,239
like i won't go into too much detail but

2562
01:35:25,109 --> 01:35:22,400
we had a private conversation he had

2563
01:35:27,189 --> 01:35:25,119
similar exp he had

2564
01:35:29,350 --> 01:35:27,199
he has fragmentary memories and he has a

2565
01:35:32,790 --> 01:35:29,360
memory of of

2566
01:35:35,590 --> 01:35:32,800
um he has a very a fully conscious

2567
01:35:36,870 --> 01:35:35,600
memory of seeing a mantis being in like

2568
01:35:38,070 --> 01:35:36,880
a field

2569
01:35:39,590 --> 01:35:38,080
um

2570
01:35:40,950 --> 01:35:39,600
like in the middle of the day when he

2571
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:40,960
was a kid in this kind of rural

2572
01:35:47,910 --> 01:35:44,400
environment and then he also had this

2573
01:35:50,470 --> 01:35:47,920
kind of fragmentary memory of grays

2574
01:35:53,030 --> 01:35:50,480
and he

2575
01:35:55,350 --> 01:35:53,040
you know like he like it was like

2576
01:35:56,390 --> 01:35:55,360
and he had thought that it was a dream

2577
01:35:59,030 --> 01:35:56,400
right

2578
01:36:01,030 --> 01:35:59,040
he like he and he chalked it up to being

2579
01:36:04,229 --> 01:36:01,040
a dream but then

2580
01:36:07,189 --> 01:36:04,239
um when he heard how i described them

2581
01:36:10,149 --> 01:36:07,199
you know when he heard my description

2582
01:36:11,350 --> 01:36:10,159
we got into a conversation about it and

2583
01:36:13,510 --> 01:36:11,360
and

2584
01:36:14,709 --> 01:36:13,520
it was

2585
01:36:17,189 --> 01:36:14,719
um

2586
01:36:19,510 --> 01:36:17,199
it was a bracing moment for him because

2587
01:36:21,910 --> 01:36:19,520
because he was like i like

2588
01:36:23,270 --> 01:36:21,920
it i think um

2589
01:36:24,790 --> 01:36:23,280
it made

2590
01:36:26,950 --> 01:36:24,800
him realize that maybe that wasn't a

2591
01:36:29,990 --> 01:36:26,960
dream after all because it was it was a

2592
01:36:30,870 --> 01:36:30,000
very very similar situation

2593
01:36:33,189 --> 01:36:30,880
um

2594
01:36:34,070 --> 01:36:33,199
but yeah and it's interesting because

2595
01:36:43,590 --> 01:36:34,080
like

2596
01:36:45,109 --> 01:36:43,600
i've seen that happen a couple times

2597
01:36:47,109 --> 01:36:45,119
where their feet actually aren't

2598
01:36:48,790 --> 01:36:47,119
touching the floor and it's like

2599
01:36:50,550 --> 01:36:48,800
they're like they themselves are

2600
01:36:52,709 --> 01:36:50,560
levitating like a few inches off the

2601
01:36:54,470 --> 01:36:52,719
ground and then some people talk about

2602
01:36:55,910 --> 01:36:54,480
this like weird shuffle

2603
01:36:58,149 --> 01:36:55,920
and then there's also this kind of like

2604
01:37:01,189 --> 01:36:58,159
marionette movement and so you know is

2605
01:37:03,109 --> 01:37:01,199
that a discrepancy or is that like

2606
01:37:05,430 --> 01:37:03,119
you know is that

2607
01:37:07,510 --> 01:37:05,440
different classes of of these beings

2608
01:37:10,229 --> 01:37:07,520
maybe there are very like there are

2609
01:37:12,229 --> 01:37:10,239
clearly different types of grays from

2610
01:37:15,030 --> 01:37:12,239
what it seems like some

2611
01:37:16,870 --> 01:37:15,040
very uniform mushroom colored skin

2612
01:37:18,070 --> 01:37:16,880
some have like a more kind of like

2613
01:37:19,270 --> 01:37:18,080
modeled

2614
01:37:24,470 --> 01:37:19,280
um

2615
01:37:26,070 --> 01:37:24,480
like have like actually have kind of

2616
01:37:27,109 --> 01:37:26,080
like marks on their skin and things like

2617
01:37:29,270 --> 01:37:27,119
that and

2618
01:37:31,189 --> 01:37:29,280
so you know is that a different type of

2619
01:37:33,189 --> 01:37:31,199
being entirely that just has a bulbous

2620
01:37:34,790 --> 01:37:33,199
head and the similar like i'm not sure

2621
01:37:36,629 --> 01:37:34,800
but maybe that helps explain like the

2622
01:37:38,070 --> 01:37:36,639
differences in the body body movements i

2623
01:37:42,390 --> 01:37:38,080
don't know

2624
01:37:44,470 --> 01:37:42,400
right um yeah i was going to say um

2625
01:37:46,390 --> 01:37:44,480
your mantis experience have you had a

2626
01:37:47,270 --> 01:37:46,400
lot of them

2627
01:37:48,390 --> 01:37:47,280
um

2628
01:37:49,910 --> 01:37:48,400
i mean

2629
01:37:51,830 --> 01:37:49,920
there's

2630
01:37:54,149 --> 01:37:51,840
there um i

2631
01:37:56,790 --> 01:37:54,159
there's been a few notable

2632
01:37:58,390 --> 01:37:56,800
instances and then there's a lot of like

2633
01:38:00,470 --> 01:37:58,400
fragmentary

2634
01:38:02,709 --> 01:38:00,480
memories and so

2635
01:38:05,430 --> 01:38:02,719
um i think this happens for a lot of

2636
01:38:07,910 --> 01:38:05,440
people where there's

2637
01:38:09,270 --> 01:38:07,920
you know some very key

2638
01:38:11,270 --> 01:38:09,280
like waking

2639
01:38:13,030 --> 01:38:11,280
like fully awake

2640
01:38:15,270 --> 01:38:13,040
experiences and then there's other

2641
01:38:17,830 --> 01:38:15,280
situations where

2642
01:38:19,830 --> 01:38:17,840
it almost feels like you know like

2643
01:38:21,270 --> 01:38:19,840
you're you've been manipulated into some

2644
01:38:23,350 --> 01:38:21,280
kind of like

2645
01:38:25,910 --> 01:38:23,360
dazed haze

2646
01:38:28,629 --> 01:38:25,920
almost like like state and so you'll

2647
01:38:31,669 --> 01:38:28,639
just have these like little blips uh

2648
01:38:34,070 --> 01:38:31,679
like a fragmentary memory but um

2649
01:38:35,189 --> 01:38:34,080
yeah i mean like that like uh-huh do

2650
01:38:38,470 --> 01:38:35,199
they look

2651
01:38:41,669 --> 01:38:38,480
i mean for me i can't imagine seeing a

2652
01:38:44,149 --> 01:38:41,679
large mantis being what exactly i mean

2653
01:38:46,229 --> 01:38:44,159
is it the whole is it just basically

2654
01:38:48,229 --> 01:38:46,239
what i see praying mantis on a larger

2655
01:38:50,470 --> 01:38:48,239
scale or is it different is it can you

2656
01:38:51,750 --> 01:38:50,480
describe exactly what they look like

2657
01:38:54,629 --> 01:38:51,760
sure um

2658
01:38:56,070 --> 01:38:54,639
yeah there's actually um

2659
01:38:59,350 --> 01:38:56,080
um

2660
01:39:01,750 --> 01:38:59,360
there's actually an illustration in

2661
01:39:04,470 --> 01:39:01,760
richard dolan's latest book alien

2662
01:39:06,629 --> 01:39:04,480
agendas of like of a mantis being and

2663
01:39:08,629 --> 01:39:06,639
it's actually illustrating

2664
01:39:12,070 --> 01:39:08,639
one of my encounters i'm not named in

2665
01:39:14,550 --> 01:39:12,080
there but it's but it's like account and

2666
01:39:17,590 --> 01:39:14,560
let me see if i can yeah um i don't know

2667
01:39:19,030 --> 01:39:17,600
if you'll be able to see this but but um

2668
01:39:23,510 --> 01:39:19,040
like

2669
01:39:25,030 --> 01:39:23,520
a pretty accurate

2670
01:39:27,750 --> 01:39:25,040
picture i mean you know it's definitely

2671
01:39:29,109 --> 01:39:27,760
transparent i thought it would be

2672
01:39:30,709 --> 01:39:29,119
yeah um

2673
01:39:33,030 --> 01:39:30,719
you know they often wear like these kind

2674
01:39:35,109 --> 01:39:33,040
of cloaks and like

2675
01:39:36,950 --> 01:39:35,119
some or people some people describe them

2676
01:39:37,990 --> 01:39:36,960
as robes or capes and there are

2677
01:39:40,790 --> 01:39:38,000
different

2678
01:39:42,550 --> 01:39:40,800
versions of this that are but like this

2679
01:39:45,590 --> 01:39:42,560
particular one it's like a three-quarter

2680
01:39:47,669 --> 01:39:45,600
sleeve like their their hands do do that

2681
01:39:48,950 --> 01:39:47,679
with this kind of like weird

2682
01:39:50,390 --> 01:39:48,960
thing right

2683
01:39:51,430 --> 01:39:50,400
and like

2684
01:39:55,990 --> 01:39:51,440
um

2685
01:39:58,629 --> 01:39:56,000
uh they uh

2686
01:40:01,030 --> 01:39:58,639
yeah the like kind of a thin neck you

2687
01:40:02,790 --> 01:40:01,040
know like it's it's

2688
01:40:04,229 --> 01:40:02,800
i'm not and i don't know what's what's

2689
01:40:06,310 --> 01:40:04,239
up with the cloaks you know what i mean

2690
01:40:09,510 --> 01:40:06,320
is that i'm like

2691
01:40:11,350 --> 01:40:09,520
this particular piece of clothing it was

2692
01:40:13,750 --> 01:40:11,360
actually kind of like

2693
01:40:15,109 --> 01:40:13,760
it's not as heavy as it looks like it's

2694
01:40:17,910 --> 01:40:15,119
actually it was actually kind of like a

2695
01:40:20,310 --> 01:40:17,920
nylon almost like a water repellent kind

2696
01:40:22,629 --> 01:40:20,320
of fabric it seemed like something that

2697
01:40:23,590 --> 01:40:22,639
you could almost like hose off so it

2698
01:40:26,950 --> 01:40:23,600
seemed like it had some kind of

2699
01:40:29,189 --> 01:40:26,960
utilitarian angle and i've seen that in

2700
01:40:31,990 --> 01:40:29,199
situations where

2701
01:40:35,189 --> 01:40:32,000
there were like medical situations so it

2702
01:40:37,109 --> 01:40:35,199
may be like kind of like a like a scrubs

2703
01:40:39,590 --> 01:40:37,119
kind of scenario i'm not sure

2704
01:40:40,790 --> 01:40:39,600
um and then or other they decided they

2705
01:40:42,229 --> 01:40:40,800
needed uh

2706
01:40:44,390 --> 01:40:42,239
they needed this they got around

2707
01:40:46,550 --> 01:40:44,400
together like guys we need something

2708
01:40:48,229 --> 01:40:46,560
that stands out what can we come up with

2709
01:40:49,189 --> 01:40:48,239
like how about the uh the cloak i'm like

2710
01:40:51,510 --> 01:40:49,199
okay

2711
01:40:53,189 --> 01:40:51,520
yeah i mean there's a there's a kind of

2712
01:40:55,030 --> 01:40:53,199
like ridiculous angle to it where it's

2713
01:40:57,270 --> 01:40:55,040
like it's like you're already like this

2714
01:40:59,910 --> 01:40:57,280
giant creature like you don't have to

2715
01:41:01,350 --> 01:40:59,920
like be so majestic and have such

2716
01:41:02,470 --> 01:41:01,360
pageantry about the whole thing or

2717
01:41:04,229 --> 01:41:02,480
whatever but

2718
01:41:06,550 --> 01:41:04,239
you know i mean like i get it they have

2719
01:41:07,910 --> 01:41:06,560
a weird body type so just wearing kind

2720
01:41:10,390 --> 01:41:07,920
of like a big

2721
01:41:12,550 --> 01:41:10,400
form like that makes sense but like

2722
01:41:15,189 --> 01:41:12,560
maybe another angle there is like again

2723
01:41:16,790 --> 01:41:15,199
this is total speculation but it's like

2724
01:41:19,189 --> 01:41:16,800
you know it's disturbing enough just

2725
01:41:21,109 --> 01:41:19,199
seeing the hands and the head and like

2726
01:41:22,310 --> 01:41:21,119
maybe there's also an element where it's

2727
01:41:23,510 --> 01:41:22,320
just like

2728
01:41:28,629 --> 01:41:23,520
like

2729
01:41:30,709 --> 01:41:28,639
percent less if they don't see eighty

2730
01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:30,719
percent of our body you know what i mean

2731
01:41:33,590 --> 01:41:31,600
like

2732
01:41:36,550 --> 01:41:33,600
but i'm not really sure you know i have

2733
01:41:38,310 --> 01:41:36,560
no idea and we've talked about earlier

2734
01:41:40,310 --> 01:41:38,320
you know we speculated that maybe that's

2735
01:41:41,830 --> 01:41:40,320
not even i mean

2736
01:41:43,669 --> 01:41:41,840
maybe it's not really their form you

2737
01:41:45,350 --> 01:41:43,679
know we talked about how the whole

2738
01:41:46,950 --> 01:41:45,360
lights in the sky is a distraction it's

2739
01:41:48,950 --> 01:41:46,960
more it's different the intelligence is

2740
01:41:50,709 --> 01:41:48,960
something different maybe these are

2741
01:41:53,270 --> 01:41:50,719
proxy forms that they take you know

2742
01:41:55,270 --> 01:41:53,280
they're able to create with advanced 3d

2743
01:41:57,669 --> 01:41:55,280
printing craft bodies

2744
01:42:00,470 --> 01:41:57,679
total speculation and it's not my idea i

2745
01:42:01,830 --> 01:42:00,480
mean valet uh keel

2746
01:42:03,109 --> 01:42:01,840
they all speculated about it that's the

2747
01:42:05,109 --> 01:42:03,119
first time i heard it was reading john

2748
01:42:07,350 --> 01:42:05,119
keel's book um

2749
01:42:09,109 --> 01:42:07,360
but yeah as you said it's scary enough i

2750
01:42:10,950 --> 01:42:09,119
mean i

2751
01:42:12,470 --> 01:42:10,960
a lot of credit to you because or in

2752
01:42:14,550 --> 01:42:12,480
people who experience in these because i

2753
01:42:16,310 --> 01:42:14,560
don't know what i would do i mean first

2754
01:42:18,390 --> 01:42:16,320
of all about speaking publicly you're

2755
01:42:20,790 --> 01:42:18,400
brave and second of all

2756
01:42:22,310 --> 01:42:20,800
i'd be scared or dumb everything in my

2757
01:42:23,830 --> 01:42:22,320
room at night let alone i'm just i'm

2758
01:42:25,189 --> 01:42:23,840
kidding i'm kidding

2759
01:42:27,270 --> 01:42:25,199
what'd you say i said you said you're

2760
01:42:28,870 --> 01:42:27,280
brave and i said or dumb maybe i'm just

2761
01:42:32,310 --> 01:42:28,880
like i'm kidding i'm playing around for

2762
01:42:34,310 --> 01:42:32,320
fun i'm just trying to no but it's like

2763
01:42:36,070 --> 01:42:34,320
i'd be scared seeing a human in my room

2764
01:42:38,149 --> 01:42:36,080
if whatever time in the night let alone

2765
01:42:40,070 --> 01:42:38,159
a giant praying mantis i mean i just

2766
01:42:41,990 --> 01:42:40,080
it's just so s

2767
01:42:43,990 --> 01:42:42,000
yeah yeah it

2768
01:42:45,590 --> 01:42:44,000
you know if it is some sort of proxy why

2769
01:42:47,590 --> 01:42:45,600
would you do that it's like it's such a

2770
01:42:48,550 --> 01:42:47,600
scary form you know

2771
01:42:50,950 --> 01:42:48,560
yeah

2772
01:42:52,390 --> 01:42:50,960
they and and at the same time like

2773
01:42:53,590 --> 01:42:52,400
they're like

2774
01:42:56,310 --> 01:42:53,600
they

2775
01:42:57,750 --> 01:42:56,320
like and like i recognize that this is

2776
01:43:00,229 --> 01:42:57,760
going to be like

2777
01:43:02,629 --> 01:43:00,239
that this is hard for some people

2778
01:43:04,870 --> 01:43:02,639
because like they may like

2779
01:43:06,790 --> 01:43:04,880
they may have like an understanding of

2780
01:43:08,790 --> 01:43:06,800
grays or that maybe something you know

2781
01:43:11,270 --> 01:43:08,800
it's clearly pervasive in popular

2782
01:43:12,470 --> 01:43:11,280
culture the idea of the greys and this

2783
01:43:13,910 --> 01:43:12,480
is like

2784
01:43:16,629 --> 01:43:13,920
a being that hasn't been really

2785
01:43:19,669 --> 01:43:16,639
portrayed much in popular culture so

2786
01:43:22,709 --> 01:43:19,679
even that as a conceptual thing might be

2787
01:43:23,590 --> 01:43:22,719
hard for some people but you know like

2788
01:43:26,229 --> 01:43:23,600
um

2789
01:43:28,870 --> 01:43:26,239
they definitely seem like in situations

2790
01:43:30,950 --> 01:43:28,880
where they and greys are around they

2791
01:43:32,550 --> 01:43:30,960
definitely seem to be

2792
01:43:34,149 --> 01:43:32,560
you know kind of like running the show

2793
01:43:36,870 --> 01:43:34,159
they definitely seem to be kind of like

2794
01:43:38,470 --> 01:43:36,880
have an overseeing supervisorial kind of

2795
01:43:39,430 --> 01:43:38,480
angle to things

2796
01:43:43,270 --> 01:43:39,440
and

2797
01:43:45,669 --> 01:43:43,280
they

2798
01:43:47,750 --> 01:43:45,679
like there's a lot of

2799
01:43:49,750 --> 01:43:47,760
energy like it's it's hard to put into

2800
01:43:51,510 --> 01:43:49,760
words because like

2801
01:43:54,070 --> 01:43:51,520
we like

2802
01:43:56,149 --> 01:43:54,080
i think that over the course of time one

2803
01:43:57,910 --> 01:43:56,159
of the things that we need to get over

2804
01:44:01,109 --> 01:43:57,920
uh or get through

2805
01:44:02,870 --> 01:44:01,119
within ufology or within these topics is

2806
01:44:05,669 --> 01:44:02,880
that we need to like

2807
01:44:08,070 --> 01:44:05,679
we need to like figure out these terms

2808
01:44:10,229 --> 01:44:08,080
we need to figure out like a clear set

2809
01:44:12,229 --> 01:44:10,239
of terms for some of this stuff

2810
01:44:13,990 --> 01:44:12,239
because like i think a lot of stuff like

2811
01:44:16,310 --> 01:44:14,000
when somebody says like it felt like

2812
01:44:18,790 --> 01:44:16,320
energy and some people hear that and

2813
01:44:21,189 --> 01:44:18,800
they're like oh this is like woo or

2814
01:44:22,229 --> 01:44:21,199
something like that right but like if we

2815
01:44:24,709 --> 01:44:22,239
can like

2816
01:44:27,270 --> 01:44:24,719
get into what that feels like if we can

2817
01:44:30,470 --> 01:44:27,280
get into like actually kind of like

2818
01:44:33,109 --> 01:44:30,480
you know like like cataloging this stuff

2819
01:44:34,390 --> 01:44:33,119
and like trying to and like agreeing to

2820
01:44:37,669 --> 01:44:34,400
some terms

2821
01:44:38,470 --> 01:44:37,679
then we can probably get a lot further

2822
01:44:43,990 --> 01:44:38,480
and

2823
01:44:47,030 --> 01:44:44,000
out you know what i mean so anyway like

2824
01:44:49,350 --> 01:44:47,040
the like the like on top of like the

2825
01:44:51,750 --> 01:44:49,360
look is that like

2826
01:44:53,990 --> 01:44:51,760
um it's a like when one of these beings

2827
01:44:56,870 --> 01:44:54,000
is around it's like a really charged

2828
01:44:59,430 --> 01:44:56,880
environment they clearly have like the

2829
01:45:03,510 --> 01:44:59,440
upper hand in the situation

2830
01:45:04,550 --> 01:45:03,520
um and also like but also

2831
01:45:06,310 --> 01:45:04,560
they

2832
01:45:07,750 --> 01:45:06,320
speak differently

2833
01:45:08,709 --> 01:45:07,760
like they're like their communication

2834
01:45:11,669 --> 01:45:08,719
method

2835
01:45:12,950 --> 01:45:11,679
is really elegant it's not like the

2836
01:45:14,310 --> 01:45:12,960
grays

2837
01:45:15,669 --> 01:45:14,320
it's really

2838
01:45:17,830 --> 01:45:15,679
um

2839
01:45:19,189 --> 01:45:17,840
it's like these ins like with grays and

2840
01:45:21,990 --> 01:45:19,199
stuff like that it's almost like

2841
01:45:22,790 --> 01:45:22,000
receiving a telegram like word by word

2842
01:45:24,629 --> 01:45:22,800
like

2843
01:45:26,629 --> 01:45:24,639
don't be afraid you know what i mean

2844
01:45:28,070 --> 01:45:26,639
this kind of like that that like these

2845
01:45:30,870 --> 01:45:28,080
and it just appears in your head you

2846
01:45:34,070 --> 01:45:30,880
know what i mean but the like

2847
01:45:35,990 --> 01:45:34,080
like the way i'm a mantis being

2848
01:45:38,390 --> 01:45:36,000
or the ones that i've

2849
01:45:40,950 --> 01:45:38,400
encountered anyway like

2850
01:45:42,870 --> 01:45:40,960
like it's a very different method and

2851
01:45:45,910 --> 01:45:42,880
it's almost like these

2852
01:45:47,430 --> 01:45:45,920
little bubbles of like kind of like a

2853
01:46:07,990 --> 01:45:47,440
like

2854
01:46:09,830 --> 01:46:08,000
a gesture

2855
01:46:12,470 --> 01:46:09,840
with like a picture attached to it and

2856
01:46:14,550 --> 01:46:12,480
then like and then some like really key

2857
01:46:17,030 --> 01:46:14,560
words but somehow

2858
01:46:18,950 --> 01:46:17,040
it's kind of like like it comes at you

2859
01:46:20,310 --> 01:46:18,960
like eight words in a picture eight

2860
01:46:21,350 --> 01:46:20,320
words in a picture

2861
01:46:28,790 --> 01:46:21,360
and

2862
01:46:31,030 --> 01:46:28,800
poetic like like uh element to it where

2863
01:46:33,350 --> 01:46:31,040
kind of like these like it kind of

2864
01:46:35,270 --> 01:46:33,360
unfolds in your head these associations

2865
01:46:37,510 --> 01:46:35,280
and it's like actually like it seems

2866
01:46:40,629 --> 01:46:37,520
like a really efficient way to

2867
01:46:41,430 --> 01:46:40,639
communicate in a strange way um and so

2868
01:46:43,270 --> 01:46:41,440
like

2869
01:46:44,550 --> 01:46:43,280
people talk about downloads is that is

2870
01:46:46,390 --> 01:46:44,560
that similar

2871
01:46:48,629 --> 01:46:46,400
is it sounds a little different

2872
01:46:49,510 --> 01:46:48,639
it's yeah i'm not you know like i think

2873
01:46:57,669 --> 01:46:49,520
that

2874
01:46:58,790 --> 01:46:57,679
maybe there's like a hundred different

2875
01:47:00,390 --> 01:46:58,800
things that could be turned into

2876
01:47:02,870 --> 01:47:00,400
download you know what i mean maybe

2877
01:47:04,550 --> 01:47:02,880
that's a whole class of communication

2878
01:47:07,430 --> 01:47:04,560
i'm not sure you know

2879
01:47:08,390 --> 01:47:07,440
um and so like i'm sure to some people

2880
01:47:11,910 --> 01:47:08,400
this might

2881
01:47:14,070 --> 01:47:11,920
because

2882
01:47:16,550 --> 01:47:14,080
it's a different way of communicating

2883
01:47:18,790 --> 01:47:16,560
and it's not just it's not how we speak

2884
01:47:21,350 --> 01:47:18,800
in this kind of like linear

2885
01:47:23,350 --> 01:47:21,360
you know word by word way it's almost

2886
01:47:25,430 --> 01:47:23,360
like it's almost like

2887
01:47:27,990 --> 01:47:25,440
it's almost like a little bubble

2888
01:47:29,990 --> 01:47:28,000
of like a few words and and like an

2889
01:47:32,310 --> 01:47:30,000
action or something like that

2890
01:47:33,669 --> 01:47:32,320
and like through and they it happens

2891
01:47:34,830 --> 01:47:33,679
sequentially

2892
01:47:38,550 --> 01:47:34,840
and

2893
01:47:39,910 --> 01:47:38,560
it's almost as if they're monitoring

2894
01:47:43,030 --> 01:47:39,920
[Music]

2895
01:47:45,350 --> 01:47:43,040
like like you like how you're unpacking

2896
01:47:47,270 --> 01:47:45,360
it as you're unpacking it and so like

2897
01:47:48,629 --> 01:47:47,280
you'll get hit with a couple

2898
01:47:50,390 --> 01:47:48,639
and then they'll kind of wait for a

2899
01:47:51,270 --> 01:47:50,400
second for you to like

2900
01:47:53,510 --> 01:47:51,280
like

2901
01:47:55,030 --> 01:47:53,520
map out what what this is and then

2902
01:47:57,109 --> 01:47:55,040
they'll like hit you

2903
01:47:57,910 --> 01:47:57,119
with with more of that

2904
01:48:00,709 --> 01:47:57,920
and

2905
01:48:02,629 --> 01:48:00,719
it shows like this like remarkable

2906
01:48:06,070 --> 01:48:02,639
mastery of

2907
01:48:07,750 --> 01:48:06,080
uh or maybe it's not but like it's like

2908
01:48:08,870 --> 01:48:07,760
definitely the upper hand in terms of

2909
01:48:13,109 --> 01:48:08,880
like

2910
01:48:15,750 --> 01:48:13,119
not just communicating with you but

2911
01:48:17,669 --> 01:48:15,760
clearly having an awareness of how

2912
01:48:19,830 --> 01:48:17,679
you're receiving it

2913
01:48:22,870 --> 01:48:19,840
and kind of perceiving it

2914
01:48:24,870 --> 01:48:22,880
so like they'll actually kind of like

2915
01:48:27,109 --> 01:48:24,880
they'll kind of like go in and correct

2916
01:48:28,790 --> 01:48:27,119
things so as you're perceiving this

2917
01:48:30,950 --> 01:48:28,800
stuff and trying to kind of like

2918
01:48:33,510 --> 01:48:30,960
logically work through it

2919
01:48:35,590 --> 01:48:33,520
like they can somehow read that and

2920
01:48:37,910 --> 01:48:35,600
clarify

2921
01:48:38,870 --> 01:48:37,920
like like if you're having a misreading

2922
01:48:40,709 --> 01:48:38,880
of like any of this kind of

2923
01:48:41,830 --> 01:48:40,719
communication does that make sense to

2924
01:48:43,590 --> 01:48:41,840
you it does that's interesting i've

2925
01:48:45,750 --> 01:48:43,600
never heard that before they actually

2926
01:48:47,430 --> 01:48:45,760
you know they can turn they can actually

2927
01:48:49,030 --> 01:48:47,440
understand that you're struggling and

2928
01:48:51,189 --> 01:48:49,040
adjust

2929
01:48:52,709 --> 01:48:51,199
which is amazing and um have you have

2930
01:48:55,189 --> 01:48:52,719
you ever undergone

2931
01:48:56,550 --> 01:48:55,199
hypnosis to try to recover any more

2932
01:48:59,350 --> 01:48:56,560
memories

2933
01:49:03,270 --> 01:48:59,360
yeah i did um i i

2934
01:49:04,470 --> 01:49:03,280
like for this only once and um and that

2935
01:49:05,750 --> 01:49:04,480
and

2936
01:49:07,990 --> 01:49:05,760
it was great

2937
01:49:11,430 --> 01:49:08,000
like a great great great um

2938
01:49:12,470 --> 01:49:11,440
hypnotherapist that um in manhattan and

2939
01:49:13,990 --> 01:49:12,480
um

2940
01:49:15,669 --> 01:49:14,000
and i haven't talked to her for a little

2941
01:49:17,270 --> 01:49:15,679
while i hope i hope she's still working

2942
01:49:19,830 --> 01:49:17,280
i don't know what her situation has been

2943
01:49:21,510 --> 01:49:19,840
since the pandemic but i think um

2944
01:49:23,270 --> 01:49:21,520
because back in

2945
01:49:29,990 --> 01:49:23,280
2017

2946
01:49:33,109 --> 01:49:30,000
like i i have a recording of it but um

2947
01:49:34,390 --> 01:49:33,119
uh and it was a

2948
01:49:36,070 --> 01:49:34,400
do you want me to talk about like what

2949
01:49:36,790 --> 01:49:36,080
that situation was or

2950
01:49:44,790 --> 01:49:36,800
yeah

2951
01:49:45,140 --> 01:49:44,800
i've only done it once is because like i

2952
01:49:46,390 --> 01:49:45,150
do

2953
01:49:47,510 --> 01:49:46,400
[Music]

2954
01:49:49,189 --> 01:49:47,520
i do

2955
01:49:51,270 --> 01:49:49,199
like take into

2956
01:49:54,390 --> 01:49:51,280
account the

2957
01:49:56,629 --> 01:49:54,400
viewpoint by some that you know the idea

2958
01:49:58,629 --> 01:49:56,639
that hypnosis could like kind of

2959
01:49:59,910 --> 01:49:58,639
manipulate or corrupt your memories or

2960
01:50:01,510 --> 01:49:59,920
something like that

2961
01:50:04,470 --> 01:50:01,520
and so like

2962
01:50:06,310 --> 01:50:04,480
uh like i'm not sure if that you know i

2963
01:50:08,229 --> 01:50:06,320
like i'm agnostic about that i don't

2964
01:50:11,109 --> 01:50:08,239
know enough about hypnosis i don't know

2965
01:50:13,430 --> 01:50:11,119
enough about consciousness to to to have

2966
01:50:16,149 --> 01:50:13,440
like any say in that

2967
01:50:20,149 --> 01:50:16,159
but i'm aware that that's a possibility

2968
01:50:22,870 --> 01:50:20,159
and so like i've been mindful that like

2969
01:50:24,470 --> 01:50:22,880
that like i don't want to go and

2970
01:50:26,470 --> 01:50:24,480
like at this stage of the game where i'm

2971
01:50:28,629 --> 01:50:26,480
at right now i don't want to go back and

2972
01:50:30,790 --> 01:50:28,639
like do hypnosis on every single one of

2973
01:50:33,430 --> 01:50:30,800
these situations because right

2974
01:50:36,229 --> 01:50:33,440
because like it it's

2975
01:50:39,669 --> 01:50:36,239
like i think that it's handy for me and

2976
01:50:40,550 --> 01:50:39,679
like and like having the the waking

2977
01:50:44,390 --> 01:50:40,560
like

2978
01:50:45,430 --> 01:50:44,400
still

2979
01:50:47,990 --> 01:50:45,440
like

2980
01:50:50,550 --> 01:50:48,000
i know that it's the memory that i have

2981
01:50:53,189 --> 01:50:50,560
and so but i will say that like that one

2982
01:50:55,109 --> 01:50:53,199
regression that i had was like a really

2983
01:50:56,790 --> 01:50:55,119
life-changing

2984
01:50:59,189 --> 01:50:56,800
experience in terms of like how

2985
01:51:01,510 --> 01:50:59,199
fascinating it was to be in that kind of

2986
01:51:04,950 --> 01:51:01,520
hypnotic state and to kind of like

2987
01:51:06,870 --> 01:51:04,960
relive something in such a in

2988
01:51:09,910 --> 01:51:06,880
such an amazing way

2989
01:51:13,350 --> 01:51:09,920
um it was a situation where i was with

2990
01:51:15,189 --> 01:51:13,360
my i was in miami for a wedding

2991
01:51:16,790 --> 01:51:15,199
with my ex-wife

2992
01:51:19,350 --> 01:51:16,800
and one of the reasons why i had this

2993
01:51:20,950 --> 01:51:19,360
done is because like my ex-wife was with

2994
01:51:22,390 --> 01:51:20,960
me and saw

2995
01:51:23,750 --> 01:51:22,400
a like

2996
01:51:26,310 --> 01:51:23,760
like um

2997
01:51:29,109 --> 01:51:26,320
a uap like this kind of like energetic

2998
01:51:31,350 --> 01:51:29,119
ball like come towards the window of

2999
01:51:33,270 --> 01:51:31,360
this like high rise we were at like off

3000
01:51:35,589 --> 01:51:33,280
of south beach miami

3001
01:51:38,709 --> 01:51:35,599
and so

3002
01:51:40,070 --> 01:51:38,719
so it was a situation where like

3003
01:51:41,669 --> 01:51:40,080
um

3004
01:51:42,790 --> 01:51:41,679
like we both

3005
01:51:46,550 --> 01:51:42,800
like

3006
01:51:49,189 --> 01:51:46,560
you know there's another witness and

3007
01:51:51,669 --> 01:51:49,199
and was something about it that i really

3008
01:51:54,550 --> 01:51:51,679
that i knew that i was i was

3009
01:51:56,470 --> 01:51:54,560
that was missing something key right

3010
01:51:57,589 --> 01:51:56,480
and i had

3011
01:51:58,870 --> 01:51:57,599
and so

3012
01:52:00,709 --> 01:51:58,880
um

3013
01:52:03,109 --> 01:52:00,719
to make a long story short like we just

3014
01:52:04,950 --> 01:52:03,119
got home from this wedding like i like i

3015
01:52:06,950 --> 01:52:04,960
looked and for some reason i had this

3016
01:52:08,470 --> 01:52:06,960
sense like it was almost like the hair

3017
01:52:10,229 --> 01:52:08,480
standing up on the back of my neck kind

3018
01:52:12,390 --> 01:52:10,239
of situation like that weird feeling of

3019
01:52:13,830 --> 01:52:12,400
being watched you know what i mean or

3020
01:52:15,669 --> 01:52:13,840
just like what is that

3021
01:52:18,149 --> 01:52:15,679
and and for whatever reason i look out

3022
01:52:20,390 --> 01:52:18,159
the window and i look down and

3023
01:52:22,470 --> 01:52:20,400
um and you know it's this big high-rise

3024
01:52:23,990 --> 01:52:22,480
fancy building and like there's you know

3025
01:52:25,030 --> 01:52:24,000
it was night and there's like one of

3026
01:52:26,629 --> 01:52:25,040
those

3027
01:52:28,629 --> 01:52:26,639
there's an outdoor pool and it was like

3028
01:52:31,750 --> 01:52:28,639
illuminated like a lot of people keep

3029
01:52:33,750 --> 01:52:31,760
pools at night right and so um

3030
01:52:36,310 --> 01:52:33,760
the pool was kind of like lit up from

3031
01:52:38,229 --> 01:52:36,320
inside of itself you know and

3032
01:52:41,270 --> 01:52:38,239
and so i looked down

3033
01:52:43,270 --> 01:52:41,280
and then like between like a few stories

3034
01:52:46,310 --> 01:52:43,280
down we were on maybe like

3035
01:52:48,550 --> 01:52:46,320
uh we're on an upper floor like it was

3036
01:52:50,149 --> 01:52:48,560
like over 10 was up

3037
01:52:55,109 --> 01:52:50,159
and

3038
01:52:57,589 --> 01:52:55,119
stories down there's like

3039
01:52:59,910 --> 01:52:57,599
like where right where i'm looking this

3040
01:53:02,229 --> 01:52:59,920
like strange like

3041
01:53:03,750 --> 01:53:02,239
ball of electricity just like pops right

3042
01:53:07,510 --> 01:53:03,760
in

3043
01:53:11,030 --> 01:53:07,520
and

3044
01:53:15,669 --> 01:53:11,040
um

3045
01:53:17,750 --> 01:53:15,679
and i'm and i i called my ex-wife over

3046
01:53:19,910 --> 01:53:17,760
and um

3047
01:53:22,310 --> 01:53:19,920
and i was like and at first she was like

3048
01:53:24,550 --> 01:53:22,320
what and uh let's get and

3049
01:53:26,149 --> 01:53:24,560
she looks out the window and like this

3050
01:53:28,550 --> 01:53:26,159
thing this like energetic ball is

3051
01:53:31,109 --> 01:53:28,560
growing and then it starts

3052
01:53:34,229 --> 01:53:31,119
it just starts moving towards the window

3053
01:53:35,910 --> 01:53:34,239
that we're looking at okay and

3054
01:53:41,669 --> 01:53:35,920
and

3055
01:53:56,229 --> 01:53:41,679
like

3056
01:53:57,990 --> 01:53:56,239
her

3057
01:54:00,390 --> 01:53:58,000
whatever happened but like it's like she

3058
01:54:03,270 --> 01:54:00,400
was falling unconscious and like i and

3059
01:54:05,189 --> 01:54:03,280
like one of my last waking memories was

3060
01:54:08,390 --> 01:54:05,199
this like

3061
01:54:11,109 --> 01:54:08,400
this thing like reaching the window and

3062
01:54:13,189 --> 01:54:11,119
me having to catch her head

3063
01:54:15,189 --> 01:54:13,199
because it was like a marble floor like

3064
01:54:17,750 --> 01:54:15,199
a st like a stone floor

3065
01:54:19,990 --> 01:54:17,760
right and and i and

3066
01:54:22,709 --> 01:54:20,000
and like i didn't want her to hit her

3067
01:54:26,229 --> 01:54:22,719
head right so like like i just was able

3068
01:54:28,149 --> 01:54:26,239
to catch her like her as she's falling

3069
01:54:29,669 --> 01:54:28,159
and then like i'm kind of being made to

3070
01:54:31,830 --> 01:54:29,679
pass out too

3071
01:54:33,589 --> 01:54:31,840
and so then like the regression kind of

3072
01:54:37,109 --> 01:54:33,599
like helped me

3073
01:54:39,350 --> 01:54:37,119
like see a lot of the like

3074
01:54:41,430 --> 01:54:39,360
like i had a couple little fragments

3075
01:54:44,229 --> 01:54:41,440
from from that like just a couple

3076
01:54:46,070 --> 01:54:44,239
minutes in from that but the regression

3077
01:54:51,430 --> 01:54:46,080
like

3078
01:54:53,910 --> 01:54:51,440
surgical procedure of some sort um and

3079
01:54:56,390 --> 01:54:53,920
me kind of like being blipped over

3080
01:54:57,830 --> 01:54:56,400
into this kind of like operating room of

3081
01:54:59,189 --> 01:54:57,840
some sort

3082
01:55:01,270 --> 01:54:59,199
and um

3083
01:55:03,510 --> 01:55:01,280
and like you know and there were like

3084
01:55:04,629 --> 01:55:03,520
weird details like and

3085
01:55:06,550 --> 01:55:04,639
but like

3086
01:55:08,229 --> 01:55:06,560
as far as like corroborating like an

3087
01:55:10,070 --> 01:55:08,239
interesting thing is that like i didn't

3088
01:55:11,510 --> 01:55:10,080
have a waking memory

3089
01:55:19,430 --> 01:55:11,520
of

3090
01:55:22,229 --> 01:55:19,440
anything like that like i like you know

3091
01:55:24,070 --> 01:55:22,239
it had been years and like but

3092
01:55:25,510 --> 01:55:24,080
when i listened to the tape after and

3093
01:55:27,030 --> 01:55:25,520
then when i went through the regression

3094
01:55:29,350 --> 01:55:27,040
it was like

3095
01:55:31,109 --> 01:55:29,360
you know like the whole room

3096
01:55:32,709 --> 01:55:31,119
you know i was like oh yeah it was like

3097
01:55:35,270 --> 01:55:32,719
that and like

3098
01:55:38,310 --> 01:55:35,280
and i was able to corroborate that the

3099
01:55:40,229 --> 01:55:38,320
weather was you know the weather like

3100
01:55:42,070 --> 01:55:40,239
you know i was like oh it was raining

3101
01:55:43,750 --> 01:55:42,080
and it was raining you know like in the

3102
01:55:46,229 --> 01:55:43,760
regression like all of a sudden all

3103
01:55:48,550 --> 01:55:46,239
these details popped in that there were

3104
01:55:51,030 --> 01:55:48,560
true but like were not things that i

3105
01:55:52,149 --> 01:55:51,040
like actively remembered in my waking

3106
01:55:55,030 --> 01:55:52,159
state

3107
01:55:57,109 --> 01:55:55,040
um and so you know like

3108
01:55:58,470 --> 01:55:57,119
where does that you know where does that

3109
01:56:00,390 --> 01:55:58,480
sit what's the other stuff does that

3110
01:56:02,629 --> 01:56:00,400
make the other stuff true of course not

3111
01:56:03,430 --> 01:56:02,639
necessarily you know what i mean

3112
01:56:05,030 --> 01:56:03,440
but

3113
01:56:08,870 --> 01:56:05,040
it was

3114
01:56:11,030 --> 01:56:08,880
i mean like i like

3115
01:56:13,830 --> 01:56:11,040
is it's fascinating it's a fascinating

3116
01:56:16,149 --> 01:56:13,840
thing to do and like it's a fascinating

3117
01:56:18,310 --> 01:56:16,159
state that the brain can get itself into

3118
01:56:20,550 --> 01:56:18,320
and like i was totally scared about

3119
01:56:22,790 --> 01:56:20,560
doing it i didn't i don't even

3120
01:56:24,390 --> 01:56:22,800
and why was i scared like you know this

3121
01:56:26,550 --> 01:56:24,400
this woman was like

3122
01:56:28,790 --> 01:56:26,560
you know set maybe 70 years old like

3123
01:56:30,310 --> 01:56:28,800
maybe she's like 110 pounds

3124
01:56:31,750 --> 01:56:30,320
what did i think she was gonna do you

3125
01:56:33,350 --> 01:56:31,760
know what i mean i was scared like oh

3126
01:56:35,189 --> 01:56:33,360
she's gonna hypnotize me and something

3127
01:56:36,550 --> 01:56:35,199
bad's gonna happen you know what i mean

3128
01:56:37,589 --> 01:56:36,560
and like

3129
01:56:39,830 --> 01:56:37,599
um

3130
01:56:41,589 --> 01:56:39,840
and i didn't like don't like the only

3131
01:56:43,990 --> 01:56:41,599
thing really scary was like that i that

3132
01:56:45,589 --> 01:56:44,000
i had more recall um

3133
01:56:46,550 --> 01:56:45,599
seemingly of the situation you know what

3134
01:56:48,310 --> 01:56:46,560
i mean

3135
01:56:50,229 --> 01:56:48,320
so you had memories of some sort of

3136
01:56:52,310 --> 01:56:50,239
surgery is do you have other experiences

3137
01:56:54,470 --> 01:56:52,320
with waking memories without obviously

3138
01:56:56,709 --> 01:56:54,480
that was your only hypnosis some similar

3139
01:56:58,310 --> 01:56:56,719
to that i mean what are

3140
01:57:00,709 --> 01:56:58,320
what are your what are your memories of

3141
01:57:02,550 --> 01:57:00,719
what they do of what you can recall

3142
01:57:04,790 --> 01:57:02,560
during these encounters and when you're

3143
01:57:07,589 --> 01:57:04,800
i guess call it abductions i know not

3144
01:57:09,750 --> 01:57:07,599
everyone is an abduction or or is it

3145
01:57:11,270 --> 01:57:09,760
um i mean i like

3146
01:57:13,350 --> 01:57:11,280
i mean i

3147
01:57:16,149 --> 01:57:13,360
wouldn't necessarily always

3148
01:57:18,470 --> 01:57:16,159
i mean clearly there there were plenty

3149
01:57:21,910 --> 01:57:18,480
of times and i like

3150
01:57:22,790 --> 01:57:21,920
earlier in my life especially in my 20s

3151
01:57:24,470 --> 01:57:22,800
where

3152
01:57:27,350 --> 01:57:24,480
i was definitely

3153
01:57:28,790 --> 01:57:27,360
being taken against my will

3154
01:57:31,910 --> 01:57:28,800
no doubt about that

3155
01:57:33,669 --> 01:57:31,920
and so like i did not want

3156
01:57:35,510 --> 01:57:33,679
i did not want this stuff to be

3157
01:57:36,470 --> 01:57:35,520
happening

3158
01:57:38,629 --> 01:57:36,480
you know

3159
01:57:43,830 --> 01:57:38,639
and

3160
01:57:44,790 --> 01:57:43,840
it i was d i was really scared

3161
01:57:58,950 --> 01:57:44,800
i

3162
01:58:00,709 --> 01:57:58,960
and

3163
01:58:02,390 --> 01:58:00,719
you know like

3164
01:58:04,390 --> 01:58:02,400
there's that hold a bit you know barb

3165
01:58:06,950 --> 01:58:04,400
you know the barber lambs or whoever in

3166
01:58:09,589 --> 01:58:06,960
the world that you know on some level

3167
01:58:10,950 --> 01:58:09,599
you wanted this to happen and like i

3168
01:58:13,109 --> 01:58:10,960
like

3169
01:58:14,149 --> 01:58:13,119
i i don't

3170
01:58:15,990 --> 01:58:14,159
like i'm

3171
01:58:20,709 --> 01:58:16,000
i'm not

3172
01:58:23,669 --> 01:58:20,719
about that but i do know that like this

3173
01:58:25,589 --> 01:58:23,679
was happening against my wishes like at

3174
01:58:28,149 --> 01:58:25,599
the time a lot of the time that this was

3175
01:58:30,390 --> 01:58:28,159
happening to put it that way

3176
01:58:32,310 --> 01:58:30,400
but to uh along with what you're saying

3177
01:58:34,390 --> 01:58:32,320
though yeah there are other like cert

3178
01:58:37,510 --> 01:58:34,400
like medical type procedures

3179
01:58:38,709 --> 01:58:37,520
done yeah um there's another one in

3180
01:58:41,750 --> 01:58:38,719
richard's

3181
01:58:43,270 --> 01:58:41,760
book that i have like a like a waking

3182
01:58:44,550 --> 01:58:43,280
memory of

3183
01:58:46,390 --> 01:58:44,560
and

3184
01:58:48,390 --> 01:58:46,400
um

3185
01:58:49,910 --> 01:58:48,400
i didn't know we were gonna go so far

3186
01:58:52,070 --> 01:58:49,920
with this stuff but it's okay you know

3187
01:58:54,310 --> 01:58:52,080
like um but you don't have to if you

3188
01:58:56,790 --> 01:58:54,320
don't want to no no it's okay it's okay

3189
01:58:59,430 --> 01:58:56,800
um you know as i'm just being mindful of

3190
01:59:01,109 --> 01:58:59,440
like how how odd this must be for some

3191
01:59:02,790 --> 01:59:01,119
of the people that are listening but you

3192
01:59:04,390 --> 01:59:02,800
know what can you do and let me know

3193
01:59:06,149 --> 01:59:04,400
when your time is short because i know

3194
01:59:08,950 --> 01:59:06,159
you've been doing a lot today

3195
01:59:11,270 --> 01:59:08,960
oh sure but um yeah but like

3196
01:59:14,229 --> 01:59:11,280
okay so like one experience that i that

3197
01:59:17,830 --> 01:59:14,239
i could describe is that that um

3198
01:59:20,550 --> 01:59:17,840
there's a situation where like i

3199
01:59:22,149 --> 01:59:20,560
i um

3200
01:59:26,070 --> 01:59:22,159
i had been

3201
01:59:29,270 --> 01:59:26,080
taken you know and this was maybe in

3202
01:59:31,189 --> 01:59:29,280
i think this would have been 2016.

3203
01:59:32,470 --> 01:59:31,199
so five years ago

3204
01:59:34,950 --> 01:59:32,480
and

3205
01:59:38,390 --> 01:59:34,960
i like through my 30s like i wore

3206
01:59:41,430 --> 01:59:38,400
glasses right like this like i had like

3207
01:59:44,950 --> 01:59:41,440
this eye was like had an astigmatism

3208
01:59:47,189 --> 01:59:44,960
and uh problems right and and so i wore

3209
01:59:49,430 --> 01:59:47,199
glasses and

3210
01:59:50,790 --> 01:59:49,440
weirdly one night um

3211
01:59:51,830 --> 01:59:50,800
i don't have to wear glasses anymore

3212
01:59:53,189 --> 01:59:51,840
okay

3213
01:59:55,030 --> 01:59:53,199
and that's kind of like the end of the

3214
01:59:57,270 --> 01:59:55,040
story i'm kind of just

3215
01:59:59,910 --> 01:59:57,280
you know spoiler alert but like

3216
02:00:02,149 --> 01:59:59,920
i i wake up and like my

3217
02:00:04,790 --> 02:00:02,159
and like i had been taken i was in this

3218
02:00:07,510 --> 02:00:04,800
kind of like operating room situation

3219
02:00:09,270 --> 02:00:07,520
i was like in a half reclined position

3220
02:00:12,310 --> 02:00:09,280
and my head

3221
02:00:14,870 --> 02:00:12,320
was kind of like tucked against my chest

3222
02:00:16,470 --> 02:00:14,880
so that like i kind of couldn't move my

3223
02:00:18,629 --> 02:00:16,480
head all right

3224
02:00:20,229 --> 02:00:18,639
and um

3225
02:00:21,830 --> 02:00:20,239
and

3226
02:00:24,070 --> 02:00:21,840
this

3227
02:00:26,790 --> 02:00:24,080
end of being

3228
02:00:32,070 --> 02:00:26,800
um

3229
02:00:33,430 --> 02:00:32,080
this like strange device

3230
02:00:34,550 --> 02:00:33,440
that was

3231
02:00:36,950 --> 02:00:34,560
um

3232
02:00:40,149 --> 02:00:36,960
not really like a caduceus but like a

3233
02:00:41,189 --> 02:00:40,159
kind of like a rod ish shape but it like

3234
02:00:43,109 --> 02:00:41,199
it had

3235
02:00:46,070 --> 02:00:43,119
like ridges on it

3236
02:00:48,550 --> 02:00:46,080
okay and like the end of it

3237
02:00:50,229 --> 02:00:48,560
there's like a little ball and

3238
02:00:52,149 --> 02:00:50,239
basically what happened was like this

3239
02:00:54,709 --> 02:00:52,159
being like like place this thing in

3240
02:00:56,950 --> 02:00:54,719
front of my right eye all right

3241
02:00:59,510 --> 02:00:56,960
it just like held it in front of my eye

3242
02:01:01,270 --> 02:00:59,520
and it was and it was and it somehow

3243
02:01:02,629 --> 02:01:01,280
activated this

3244
02:01:04,790 --> 02:01:02,639
device

3245
02:01:07,430 --> 02:01:04,800
such that like the end of this thing

3246
02:01:10,550 --> 02:01:07,440
kind of like extended out and

3247
02:01:12,310 --> 02:01:10,560
these three or four pincers opened out

3248
02:01:14,950 --> 02:01:12,320
of this thing right so it almost had

3249
02:01:17,990 --> 02:01:14,960
this kind of like snakey movement

3250
02:01:21,109 --> 02:01:18,000
it reaches in under my under my my

3251
02:01:23,109 --> 02:01:21,119
eyelid my right eye

3252
02:01:24,070 --> 02:01:23,119
pops my eye out

3253
02:01:25,910 --> 02:01:24,080
all right

3254
02:01:27,669 --> 02:01:25,920
and like all of a sudden

3255
02:01:29,270 --> 02:01:27,679
like i don't know if anybody that's

3256
02:01:31,750 --> 02:01:29,280
going to be watching this now or later

3257
02:01:34,310 --> 02:01:31,760
has ever had an experience like this but

3258
02:01:36,070 --> 02:01:34,320
like when your eye when that happens

3259
02:01:37,910 --> 02:01:36,080
like all of a sudden you you're it's

3260
02:01:39,030 --> 02:01:37,920
like two cameras it's like camera a

3261
02:01:40,629 --> 02:01:39,040
camera b

3262
02:01:43,270 --> 02:01:40,639
like you don't have unified sight

3263
02:01:45,910 --> 02:01:43,280
anymore right so like the one like this

3264
02:01:48,149 --> 02:01:45,920
one was basically covered by this like

3265
02:01:49,990 --> 02:01:48,159
pincer device

3266
02:01:53,030 --> 02:01:50,000
and then from my left eye i'm looking

3267
02:01:55,589 --> 02:01:53,040
over and i can see this thing my eyeball

3268
02:01:57,510 --> 02:01:55,599
and then like the the i can't remember

3269
02:01:58,470 --> 02:01:57,520
what you call it but like the like

3270
02:02:00,790 --> 02:01:58,480
string

3271
02:02:03,430 --> 02:02:00,800
that like connects your eye to your head

3272
02:02:05,270 --> 02:02:03,440
it's like it's just like and it it was

3273
02:02:06,229 --> 02:02:05,280
out like maybe that far from my head

3274
02:02:07,910 --> 02:02:06,239
okay

3275
02:02:09,589 --> 02:02:07,920
and like it

3276
02:02:12,790 --> 02:02:09,599
and then

3277
02:02:14,790 --> 02:02:12,800
i could see this other almost like um

3278
02:02:17,350 --> 02:02:14,800
almost like a tweezer or something like

3279
02:02:19,109 --> 02:02:17,360
that like kind of like being inserted

3280
02:02:21,669 --> 02:02:19,119
like under it

3281
02:02:23,350 --> 02:02:21,679
and i and like other than that and

3282
02:02:25,750 --> 02:02:23,360
seeing a few beings like in my

3283
02:02:27,669 --> 02:02:25,760
peripheral vision off back i don't

3284
02:02:29,990 --> 02:02:27,679
remember what happened after that i

3285
02:02:32,950 --> 02:02:30,000
think i was like made to black out or

3286
02:02:34,149 --> 02:02:32,960
maybe i like out from fear like at that

3287
02:02:35,830 --> 02:02:34,159
moment

3288
02:02:38,550 --> 02:02:35,840
um but

3289
02:02:40,950 --> 02:02:38,560
i woke up the next morning and and i was

3290
02:02:42,629 --> 02:02:40,960
like god that that was really disturbing

3291
02:02:44,830 --> 02:02:42,639
you know what i mean like you know wake

3292
02:02:48,070 --> 02:02:44,840
up is really disturbing

3293
02:02:49,189 --> 02:02:48,080
and over the next couple days i realized

3294
02:02:51,270 --> 02:02:49,199
i was like

3295
02:02:53,350 --> 02:02:51,280
i was going longer and longer without

3296
02:02:54,709 --> 02:02:53,360
putting my glasses on you know what i

3297
02:02:56,470 --> 02:02:54,719
mean normally like looking at the

3298
02:02:58,950 --> 02:02:56,480
computer reading

3299
02:03:00,550 --> 02:02:58,960
going outside like i like i'd throw my

3300
02:03:02,870 --> 02:03:00,560
glasses on because otherwise i would

3301
02:03:03,750 --> 02:03:02,880
start getting a headache right and like

3302
02:03:06,149 --> 02:03:03,760
um

3303
02:03:08,470 --> 02:03:06,159
and i realized and like within a few

3304
02:03:09,750 --> 02:03:08,480
days after that i realized like

3305
02:03:11,430 --> 02:03:09,760
like

3306
02:03:14,070 --> 02:03:11,440
i'm just gonna not wear my glasses today

3307
02:03:16,790 --> 02:03:14,080
because i don't maybe i don't need to

3308
02:03:17,910 --> 02:03:16,800
like like i can see like my like i can

3309
02:03:22,229 --> 02:03:17,920
like

3310
02:03:24,070 --> 02:03:22,239
my my focus wasn't so great at about

3311
02:03:25,750 --> 02:03:24,080
this distance all right and then i i

3312
02:03:27,589 --> 02:03:25,760
recognized i was like wait a second like

3313
02:03:30,390 --> 02:03:27,599
i can focus

3314
02:03:31,990 --> 02:03:30,400
like like like closer again and then i

3315
02:03:33,350 --> 02:03:32,000
and then over time i recognized that i

3316
02:03:36,149 --> 02:03:33,360
didn't i didn't have to wear my glasses

3317
02:03:37,589 --> 02:03:36,159
anymore i kept them for posterity but

3318
02:03:39,669 --> 02:03:37,599
um and so i don't know what the hell

3319
02:03:41,270 --> 02:03:39,679
that was like that like

3320
02:03:42,870 --> 02:03:41,280
i don't know if that was a byproduct i

3321
02:03:44,470 --> 02:03:42,880
don't know if it was decided like you

3322
02:03:46,390 --> 02:03:44,480
know what i mean like was that like a

3323
02:03:48,229 --> 02:03:46,400
convenient side effect of whatever they

3324
02:03:49,830 --> 02:03:48,239
were doing like

3325
02:03:51,430 --> 02:03:49,840
what are they trying you know what i

3326
02:03:53,189 --> 02:03:51,440
mean were they trying to fix my vision

3327
02:03:55,109 --> 02:03:53,199
or did they just have to do something

3328
02:03:56,950 --> 02:03:55,119
and then they were they're like

3329
02:03:58,550 --> 02:03:56,960
you know they left it better than they

3330
02:03:59,910 --> 02:03:58,560
found it or something like that i don't

3331
02:04:01,510 --> 02:03:59,920
know you know what i mean yeah or maybe

3332
02:04:04,069 --> 02:04:01,520
they're you know i think maybe they're

3333
02:04:05,510 --> 02:04:04,079
and obviously we're speculating um

3334
02:04:07,109 --> 02:04:05,520
they're

3335
02:04:08,149 --> 02:04:07,119
doing what they need to do on their end

3336
02:04:09,830 --> 02:04:08,159
and then one of them's like you know

3337
02:04:11,270 --> 02:04:09,840
what let's throw the guy a bone we've

3338
02:04:12,870 --> 02:04:11,280
been doing all this stuff to him let's

3339
02:04:14,550 --> 02:04:12,880
fix his eyesight while we're at it you

3340
02:04:15,830 --> 02:04:14,560
know it's like

3341
02:04:17,189 --> 02:04:15,840
you know because i'm like what do you

3342
02:04:18,870 --> 02:04:17,199
think i mean what do you think of all

3343
02:04:20,470 --> 02:04:18,880
this what is going on i mean i know yeah

3344
02:04:21,589 --> 02:04:20,480
it's obvious we're speculating here but

3345
02:04:23,270 --> 02:04:21,599
it's like

3346
02:04:25,109 --> 02:04:23,280
do you have like a favorite hypothesis

3347
02:04:28,069 --> 02:04:25,119
of what's going on with you specifically

3348
02:04:29,830 --> 02:04:28,079
over over all these years

3349
02:04:31,669 --> 02:04:29,840
um i mean

3350
02:04:34,390 --> 02:04:31,679
they're definitely

3351
02:04:36,790 --> 02:04:34,400
like i like again speculation and i

3352
02:04:39,270 --> 02:04:36,800
don't know you know what i mean and like

3353
02:04:41,350 --> 02:04:39,280
i like i like

3354
02:04:45,030 --> 02:04:41,360
very clearly i don't know but

3355
02:04:46,790 --> 02:04:45,040
the there definitely has been like

3356
02:04:48,790 --> 02:04:46,800
you know since

3357
02:04:51,510 --> 02:04:48,800
you know especially in my 20s i have

3358
02:04:52,470 --> 02:04:51,520
more fragmentary memories of like of

3359
02:04:56,550 --> 02:04:52,480
like

3360
02:04:59,109 --> 02:04:56,560
they were kind of taking diagnostics or

3361
02:05:00,470 --> 02:04:59,119
you know fluids and things like that

3362
02:05:03,910 --> 02:05:00,480
and it seemed like there was they're

3363
02:05:05,589 --> 02:05:03,920
kind of like keeping a record of

3364
02:05:07,430 --> 02:05:05,599
like um

3365
02:05:09,030 --> 02:05:07,440
of me you know what i mean like doing

3366
02:05:11,990 --> 02:05:09,040
like a workup or something like i don't

3367
02:05:14,229 --> 02:05:12,000
like like taking some kind of of

3368
02:05:16,069 --> 02:05:14,239
readings like regularly

3369
02:05:18,950 --> 02:05:16,079
um and

3370
02:05:20,470 --> 02:05:18,960
and so like i know you know like

3371
02:05:23,270 --> 02:05:20,480
that's

3372
02:05:25,430 --> 02:05:23,280
like you know i'm i'm pretty dang sure

3373
02:05:28,470 --> 02:05:25,440
about that you know i have enough point

3374
02:05:29,430 --> 02:05:28,480
i have plenty of enough memories of that

3375
02:05:30,229 --> 02:05:29,440
um

3376
02:05:31,589 --> 02:05:30,239
but

3377
02:05:37,510 --> 02:05:31,599
why

3378
02:05:40,709 --> 02:05:39,750
you know there does seem to be something

3379
02:05:41,830 --> 02:05:40,719
to

3380
02:05:43,669 --> 02:05:41,840
the

3381
02:05:47,270 --> 02:05:43,679
genetic

3382
02:05:49,109 --> 02:05:47,280
you know like i i

3383
02:05:53,350 --> 02:05:49,119
they're

3384
02:05:55,990 --> 02:05:53,360
i now i'm getting like really dicey

3385
02:05:58,149 --> 02:05:56,000
about what i want to say but like i i i

3386
02:06:00,709 --> 02:05:58,159
because it's it's controversial you know

3387
02:06:02,390 --> 02:06:00,719
but like there does there does seem to

3388
02:06:05,750 --> 02:06:02,400
be they definitely

3389
02:06:08,550 --> 02:06:05,760
like whatever that particular group of

3390
02:06:13,030 --> 02:06:08,560
beings are or some of them or whatever

3391
02:06:14,310 --> 02:06:13,040
um and i think that like i've had

3392
02:06:16,790 --> 02:06:14,320
more

3393
02:06:19,830 --> 02:06:16,800
than just this one group of like medical

3394
02:06:21,189 --> 02:06:19,840
experimenting beings right because the

3395
02:06:23,350 --> 02:06:21,199
like i don't know what the ghost

3396
02:06:24,550 --> 02:06:23,360
poltergeist stuff is and and this is

3397
02:06:27,510 --> 02:06:24,560
really common you know on the

3398
02:06:30,310 --> 02:06:27,520
experiencer group like it's really

3399
02:06:32,310 --> 02:06:30,320
it's actually more the like the rules

3400
02:06:34,390 --> 02:06:32,320
and the exception that like a lot of

3401
02:06:35,669 --> 02:06:34,400
experiencers will have more than one

3402
02:06:38,310 --> 02:06:35,679
modality

3403
02:06:39,430 --> 02:06:38,320
or you know it's not just one encounter

3404
02:06:41,270 --> 02:06:39,440
like

3405
02:06:43,350 --> 02:06:41,280
you know people used to discredit people

3406
02:06:45,350 --> 02:06:43,360
for having like more than one encounter

3407
02:06:47,750 --> 02:06:45,360
but like the re like

3408
02:06:50,229 --> 02:06:47,760
from the numbers and from the cases that

3409
02:06:51,990 --> 02:06:50,239
i know of it's it's it would be

3410
02:06:53,669 --> 02:06:52,000
much more notable

3411
02:06:56,790 --> 02:06:53,679
if something only happened once to

3412
02:06:58,629 --> 02:06:56,800
somebody than then then happening much

3413
02:07:00,470 --> 02:06:58,639
more frequently and people don't want to

3414
02:07:02,069 --> 02:07:00,480
admit that but it's

3415
02:07:05,350 --> 02:07:02,079
usually the case

3416
02:07:06,950 --> 02:07:05,360
um so you know like i like apart from

3417
02:07:08,310 --> 02:07:06,960
that i'm not sure it seems like they're

3418
02:07:11,430 --> 02:07:08,320
definitely interested in our body

3419
02:07:14,069 --> 02:07:11,440
process and stuff like that and and

3420
02:07:15,750 --> 02:07:14,079
you know i i'm not sure why i like i

3421
02:07:18,390 --> 02:07:15,760
don't know if it's you know we could

3422
02:07:20,550 --> 02:07:18,400
talk about the hybrid program or

3423
02:07:22,790 --> 02:07:20,560
manipulation sort of stuff like that

3424
02:07:24,790 --> 02:07:22,800
like i don't have an answer all i know

3425
02:07:27,109 --> 02:07:24,800
is that and it kind of makes sense to me

3426
02:07:29,589 --> 02:07:27,119
like if we if we got to some other

3427
02:07:31,669 --> 02:07:29,599
environment and there were biological

3428
02:07:33,750 --> 02:07:31,679
entities there we would probably you

3429
02:07:35,990 --> 02:07:33,760
know we do that in our own oceans you

3430
02:07:37,830 --> 02:07:36,000
know what i mean like marine biologists

3431
02:07:40,229 --> 02:07:37,840
and stuff like that we study everything

3432
02:07:42,870 --> 02:07:40,239
that we can find so it kind of makes it

3433
02:07:44,950 --> 02:07:42,880
in that way if it's even just that that

3434
02:07:48,069 --> 02:07:44,960
makes you know that would make sense to

3435
02:07:49,990 --> 02:07:48,079
me but i'm not sure

3436
02:07:52,310 --> 02:07:50,000
before i i definitely want to touch on

3437
02:07:53,589 --> 02:07:52,320
one thing um as far as your friends and

3438
02:07:55,270 --> 02:07:53,599
how this has affected your friends and

3439
02:07:58,550 --> 02:07:55,280
how you've lost friends because when i

3440
02:07:59,910 --> 02:07:58,560
heard you talk about that i was like

3441
02:08:01,270 --> 02:07:59,920
yeah that must be tough can you just

3442
02:08:03,750 --> 02:08:01,280
talk about some of the experiences you

3443
02:08:05,270 --> 02:08:03,760
had as far as your friends and having

3444
02:08:07,270 --> 02:08:05,280
them have experiences while they were

3445
02:08:09,750 --> 02:08:07,280
around you

3446
02:08:11,669 --> 02:08:09,760
sure um

3447
02:08:13,669 --> 02:08:11,679
yeah and it's actually and like i

3448
02:08:16,870 --> 02:08:13,679
appreciate you asking and i appreciate

3449
02:08:19,109 --> 02:08:16,880
that you that you actually mentioned

3450
02:08:21,910 --> 02:08:19,119
that you wanted to ask about that before

3451
02:08:23,750 --> 02:08:21,920
we started tonight because

3452
02:08:25,589 --> 02:08:23,760
you know they're like and i appreciate

3453
02:08:27,910 --> 02:08:25,599
your sensitivity towards that because

3454
02:08:31,750 --> 02:08:27,920
it's it's one of those things where

3455
02:08:35,430 --> 02:08:31,760
you know like often these topics

3456
02:08:38,310 --> 02:08:35,440
can bring up some like really sad and

3457
02:08:40,310 --> 02:08:38,320
and and traumatic memories for people

3458
02:08:42,629 --> 02:08:40,320
right and like i'm able to talk about

3459
02:08:43,830 --> 02:08:42,639
that surgery thing but like

3460
02:08:45,589 --> 02:08:43,840
what

3461
02:08:48,310 --> 02:08:45,599
and i've kind of like processed that

3462
02:08:49,350 --> 02:08:48,320
more but it like

3463
02:08:53,430 --> 02:08:49,360
losing

3464
02:08:57,270 --> 02:08:55,270
oh over this stuff has been really

3465
02:08:58,950 --> 02:08:57,280
difficult

3466
02:09:03,270 --> 02:08:58,960
um

3467
02:09:06,149 --> 02:09:03,280
but uh when i was when i was about

3468
02:09:08,950 --> 02:09:06,159
19 years old uh

3469
02:09:10,470 --> 02:09:08,960
i had uh

3470
02:09:11,589 --> 02:09:10,480
two friends that i well there were like

3471
02:09:14,310 --> 02:09:11,599
three or four friends that i really

3472
02:09:17,270 --> 02:09:14,320
piled around with at that time and

3473
02:09:20,149 --> 02:09:17,280
what it came down to is that like

3474
02:09:22,229 --> 02:09:20,159
one of those friends was able to

3475
02:09:25,350 --> 02:09:22,239
integrate

3476
02:09:27,990 --> 02:09:25,360
being privy to paranormal experiences

3477
02:09:30,310 --> 02:09:28,000
happening when he was around me

3478
02:09:34,390 --> 02:09:30,320
and two of my friends were not able to

3479
02:09:36,709 --> 02:09:34,400
integrate that um they all recognized

3480
02:09:39,350 --> 02:09:36,719
um and i at that time was able to kind

3481
02:09:41,589 --> 02:09:39,360
of like readily admit that

3482
02:09:43,830 --> 02:09:41,599
that you know like

3483
02:09:45,109 --> 02:09:43,840
sometimes weird stuff happened around me

3484
02:09:46,470 --> 02:09:45,119
you know

3485
02:09:48,470 --> 02:09:46,480
and um

3486
02:09:50,870 --> 02:09:48,480
and sometimes like um

3487
02:09:52,629 --> 02:09:50,880
poltergeist type phenomena like things

3488
02:09:55,750 --> 02:09:52,639
moving around maybe kind of like what

3489
02:09:57,830 --> 02:09:55,760
eric davis was talking about there um

3490
02:09:59,750 --> 02:09:57,840
and that would be like

3491
02:10:02,149 --> 02:09:59,760
um

3492
02:10:03,189 --> 02:10:02,159
and then sometimes people would kind of

3493
02:10:05,350 --> 02:10:03,199
sense

3494
02:10:07,990 --> 02:10:05,360
presences kind of blipping in or

3495
02:10:08,950 --> 02:10:08,000
something like this and

3496
02:10:19,910 --> 02:10:08,960
and

3497
02:10:20,870 --> 02:10:19,920
one guy um

3498
02:10:23,750 --> 02:10:20,880
uh

3499
02:10:25,189 --> 02:10:23,760
like i i won't name him um

3500
02:10:26,310 --> 02:10:25,199
but um

3501
02:10:29,510 --> 02:10:26,320
like um

3502
02:10:32,550 --> 02:10:29,520
there's a very strange situation where

3503
02:10:33,669 --> 02:10:32,560
we were at his place and

3504
02:10:35,910 --> 02:10:33,679
like

3505
02:10:38,310 --> 02:10:35,920
and this strange

3506
02:10:41,589 --> 02:10:38,320
voice it was as if something was again

3507
02:10:44,149 --> 02:10:41,599
something was like like

3508
02:10:47,270 --> 02:10:44,159
like aware and like right there but on

3509
02:10:48,950 --> 02:10:47,280
some like next level or some like next

3510
02:10:50,629 --> 02:10:48,960
phase or something like that

3511
02:10:53,510 --> 02:10:50,639
and it spoke

3512
02:10:56,390 --> 02:10:53,520
and it was like a voice was coming

3513
02:10:59,430 --> 02:10:56,400
out like we couldn't see whoever this

3514
02:11:02,790 --> 02:10:59,440
was but we heard this voice like

3515
02:11:04,229 --> 02:11:02,800
as if uh as if somebody was talking like

3516
02:11:05,270 --> 02:11:04,239
four feet from you or something like

3517
02:11:07,109 --> 02:11:05,280
this

3518
02:11:09,669 --> 02:11:07,119
and um

3519
02:11:11,510 --> 02:11:09,679
and like i i'd prefer not to go into the

3520
02:11:15,270 --> 02:11:11,520
details too much about that but like it

3521
02:11:19,669 --> 02:11:15,280
was very very scary it was like like in

3522
02:11:20,870 --> 02:11:19,679
a lifetime of very scary events that was

3523
02:11:21,669 --> 02:11:20,880
um

3524
02:11:24,550 --> 02:11:21,679
like

3525
02:11:25,750 --> 02:11:24,560
deeply frightening and he

3526
02:11:28,229 --> 02:11:25,760
um

3527
02:11:30,709 --> 02:11:28,239
he's he stopped hanging out with me he

3528
02:11:32,550 --> 02:11:30,719
became a born-again christian because

3529
02:11:35,030 --> 02:11:32,560
like after that um

3530
02:11:36,709 --> 02:11:35,040
and like nothing against you know people

3531
02:11:37,830 --> 02:11:36,719
with the religion or whatever but like

3532
02:11:38,629 --> 02:11:37,840
he

3533
02:11:40,950 --> 02:11:38,639
came

3534
02:11:43,669 --> 02:11:40,960
his understanding his way of processing

3535
02:11:45,589 --> 02:11:43,679
that was that like this stuff was evil

3536
02:11:47,669 --> 02:11:45,599
or like demonic or something like that

3537
02:11:49,990 --> 02:11:47,679
and like he his way

3538
02:11:53,030 --> 02:11:50,000
he didn't want he like

3539
02:11:54,390 --> 02:11:53,040
it kind of like shifted him into a phase

3540
02:11:56,390 --> 02:11:54,400
where he

3541
02:11:59,830 --> 02:11:56,400
wanted to

3542
02:12:01,589 --> 02:11:59,840
he was like this stuff is real it's bad

3543
02:12:03,510 --> 02:12:01,599
i want to do whatever the opposite of

3544
02:12:07,030 --> 02:12:03,520
that is and his way of dealing with that

3545
02:12:08,629 --> 02:12:07,040
was getting really into you know like

3546
02:12:11,030 --> 02:12:08,639
evangelical

3547
02:12:13,750 --> 02:12:11,040
christian faith right

3548
02:12:16,069 --> 02:12:13,760
and um and not hanging out with me

3549
02:12:17,030 --> 02:12:16,079
right and and um and another friend of

3550
02:12:19,669 --> 02:12:17,040
mine

3551
02:12:21,990 --> 02:12:19,679
who's like a pretty successful musician

3552
02:12:24,629 --> 02:12:22,000
and he um

3553
02:12:27,270 --> 02:12:24,639
and i won't name him either but similar

3554
02:12:28,069 --> 02:12:27,280
situation like um just

3555
02:12:29,750 --> 02:12:28,079
um

3556
02:12:31,750 --> 02:12:29,760
encountering like

3557
02:12:34,149 --> 02:12:31,760
it was just like

3558
02:12:37,510 --> 02:12:34,159
enough situations maybe a handful of

3559
02:12:39,030 --> 02:12:37,520
times where he encountered like what

3560
02:12:43,109 --> 02:12:39,040
could be thought of as poltergeist

3561
02:12:45,270 --> 02:12:43,119
phenomena like like when near near me

3562
02:12:47,510 --> 02:12:45,280
you know when hanging out with me

3563
02:12:48,790 --> 02:12:47,520
and eventually it just got it was just

3564
02:12:54,629 --> 02:12:48,800
um

3565
02:12:57,910 --> 02:12:54,639
and like stopped hanging on and then i

3566
02:13:01,350 --> 02:12:57,920
i actually ran into him in um

3567
02:13:03,830 --> 02:13:01,360
in uh in minneapolis um a few years ago

3568
02:13:06,229 --> 02:13:03,840
uh my mom lives out in twin cities i

3569
02:13:08,629 --> 02:13:06,239
went back i went back there to visit her

3570
02:13:10,229 --> 02:13:08,639
um and

3571
02:13:12,470 --> 02:13:10,239
um uh

3572
02:13:14,149 --> 02:13:12,480
and ran ran into him i was with my

3573
02:13:15,510 --> 02:13:14,159
partner we were in the car i saw him on

3574
02:13:16,950 --> 02:13:15,520
the side of the street and he was like

3575
02:13:19,669 --> 02:13:16,960
he was i was like

3576
02:13:22,470 --> 02:13:19,679
you know i said his name and you and

3577
02:13:23,910 --> 02:13:22,480
whoa hadn't seen him in years like over

3578
02:13:26,069 --> 02:13:23,920
a decade and

3579
02:13:27,510 --> 02:13:26,079
um and he said he said where he's gonna

3580
02:13:29,990 --> 02:13:27,520
like a bar he was gonna hang out later

3581
02:13:32,470 --> 02:13:30,000
that night he was like come by so get

3582
02:13:33,910 --> 02:13:32,480
there later on you know like a couple

3583
02:13:35,030 --> 02:13:33,920
hours and my partner goes to the

3584
02:13:37,030 --> 02:13:35,040
bathroom

3585
02:13:38,709 --> 02:13:37,040
and he just and he like takes kind of

3586
02:13:41,669 --> 02:13:38,719
advantage of the moment

3587
02:13:43,270 --> 02:13:41,679
and and he and he was like

3588
02:13:44,390 --> 02:13:43,280
like i'm really sorry about what

3589
02:13:46,470 --> 02:13:44,400
happened

3590
02:13:49,270 --> 02:13:46,480
but i stopped hanging out with you and

3591
02:13:52,550 --> 02:13:49,280
that stuff never happened again

3592
02:13:54,069 --> 02:13:52,560
and then and and and he was like so i'm

3593
02:13:55,350 --> 02:13:54,079
sorry but i hope you understand and i

3594
02:13:59,510 --> 02:13:55,360
was like

3595
02:14:01,350 --> 02:13:59,520
yeah no i do i do understand so you know

3596
02:14:03,830 --> 02:14:01,360
and you know it was night we had a great

3597
02:14:05,030 --> 02:14:03,840
night you know and like it was it was

3598
02:14:06,790 --> 02:14:05,040
great to be able to have that kind of

3599
02:14:09,270 --> 02:14:06,800
acknowledgement you know

3600
02:14:11,109 --> 02:14:09,280
um but you know it hurt like like this

3601
02:14:13,510 --> 02:14:11,119
is a guy that you know like

3602
02:14:16,229 --> 02:14:13,520
like i admired him like we like we hung

3603
02:14:18,390 --> 02:14:16,239
out a lot he's is he's one of my very

3604
02:14:19,910 --> 02:14:18,400
best friends and like

3605
02:14:23,350 --> 02:14:19,920
and like

3606
02:14:25,990 --> 02:14:23,360
and that became like such a

3607
02:14:28,149 --> 02:14:26,000
it was at that point that like that like

3608
02:14:29,910 --> 02:14:28,159
i was already scared about talking to

3609
02:14:32,390 --> 02:14:29,920
people about this stuff but it was at

3610
02:14:35,669 --> 02:14:32,400
that point that i was like okay people

3611
02:14:38,470 --> 02:14:35,679
can never know about this like like i

3612
02:14:40,390 --> 02:14:38,480
need to do whatever i can

3613
02:14:42,229 --> 02:14:40,400
to to hide this

3614
02:14:45,750 --> 02:14:42,239
to keep this a secret

3615
02:14:47,109 --> 02:14:45,760
because like i don't want to

3616
02:14:50,550 --> 02:14:47,119
face

3617
02:14:53,270 --> 02:14:50,560
um that kind of loss and abandonment

3618
02:14:57,990 --> 02:14:55,510
yeah i can't i can't imagine um people

3619
02:15:00,310 --> 02:14:58,000
listening to that

3620
02:15:02,229 --> 02:15:00,320
why would somebody like you know

3621
02:15:03,910 --> 02:15:02,239
make these stories up and you sharing

3622
02:15:06,310 --> 02:15:03,920
something i appreciate you sharing that

3623
02:15:07,910 --> 02:15:06,320
um and and i'm not making light of this

3624
02:15:09,430 --> 02:15:07,920
i think there will now that you're

3625
02:15:11,430 --> 02:15:09,440
public i think there will be people on

3626
02:15:13,669 --> 02:15:11,440
the opposite end there are people that

3627
02:15:15,510 --> 02:15:13,679
are going to want to hang out with you

3628
02:15:17,189 --> 02:15:15,520
to have experiences they will be because

3629
02:15:19,589 --> 02:15:17,199
there are people i haven't had

3630
02:15:21,030 --> 02:15:19,599
experiences i i don't want experiences

3631
02:15:22,550 --> 02:15:21,040
i've never asked for experiences i'm

3632
02:15:25,030 --> 02:15:22,560
okay but i know there are other people

3633
02:15:26,390 --> 02:15:25,040
who do um it's really similar to people

3634
02:15:28,629 --> 02:15:26,400
who go to something like skinwalker

3635
02:15:30,229 --> 02:15:28,639
ranch which i would not go to

3636
02:15:31,510 --> 02:15:30,239
so it's like you're the human version of

3637
02:15:33,030 --> 02:15:31,520
that i'm not making light of it it's

3638
02:15:35,350 --> 02:15:33,040
just really interesting to me that that

3639
02:15:37,030 --> 02:15:35,360
happens and i feel sorry you lost

3640
02:15:39,669 --> 02:15:37,040
friends like that uh how did you how is

3641
02:15:41,589 --> 02:15:39,679
your current partner handle it

3642
02:15:44,069 --> 02:15:41,599
she's great she's amazing i mean like

3643
02:15:45,030 --> 02:15:44,079
and like the and

3644
02:15:49,350 --> 02:15:45,040
and

3645
02:15:51,589 --> 02:15:49,360
you know i mean that kind of stuff like

3646
02:15:54,870 --> 02:15:51,599
it really hit a high point in my 20s and

3647
02:15:56,790 --> 02:15:54,880
so it's like you know i'm not like um

3648
02:15:58,870 --> 02:15:56,800
you know to be clear like i'm not like

3649
02:16:00,550 --> 02:15:58,880
the david copperfield of poltergeist

3650
02:16:01,830 --> 02:16:00,560
phenomena like you can't just like hang

3651
02:16:03,589 --> 02:16:01,840
out with me and be sure that something

3652
02:16:06,149 --> 02:16:03,599
like that like it doesn't work that way

3653
02:16:07,510 --> 02:16:06,159
you know what i mean but like um

3654
02:16:08,390 --> 02:16:07,520
but i

3655
02:16:09,430 --> 02:16:08,400
but

3656
02:16:10,950 --> 02:16:09,440
you know

3657
02:16:12,310 --> 02:16:10,960
um

3658
02:16:14,069 --> 02:16:12,320
so

3659
02:16:16,790 --> 02:16:14,079
you know at this stage of the game stuff

3660
02:16:19,109 --> 02:16:16,800
still it's more sporadic you know and i

3661
02:16:21,669 --> 02:16:19,119
think that part of it is like me being

3662
02:16:23,830 --> 02:16:21,679
more clear about my boundaries i think

3663
02:16:26,950 --> 02:16:23,840
the meditation stuff helps i think that

3664
02:16:28,550 --> 02:16:26,960
i you know i live a healthier lifestyle

3665
02:16:30,709 --> 02:16:28,560
than i did back then i think that

3666
02:16:34,709 --> 02:16:30,719
there's and like but at the end of the

3667
02:16:37,589 --> 02:16:34,719
day i don't know why like like

3668
02:16:38,790 --> 02:16:37,599
the nature of things is is different now

3669
02:16:41,429 --> 02:16:38,800
but um

3670
02:16:43,589 --> 02:16:41,439
or that that things

3671
02:16:45,910 --> 02:16:43,599
that it's a different that are that

3672
02:16:47,270 --> 02:16:45,920
different modes happen and it's more

3673
02:16:48,549 --> 02:16:47,280
sporadic

3674
02:16:49,750 --> 02:16:48,559
but um

3675
02:16:52,389 --> 02:16:49,760
but

3676
02:16:54,389 --> 02:16:52,399
she's great like she's she's been around

3677
02:16:57,509 --> 02:16:54,399
for a few really

3678
02:17:00,629 --> 02:16:57,519
you know intense situations

3679
02:17:03,669 --> 02:17:00,639
and um and she has been able to

3680
02:17:06,230 --> 02:17:03,679
integrate it you know she's been able to

3681
02:17:08,309 --> 02:17:06,240
um you know there's there's one night

3682
02:17:09,270 --> 02:17:08,319
for example where

3683
02:17:11,750 --> 02:17:09,280
um

3684
02:17:12,549 --> 02:17:11,760
like i again got that kind of spidey

3685
02:17:14,070 --> 02:17:12,559
sense

3686
02:17:16,309 --> 02:17:14,080
like i was talking about with miami

3687
02:17:18,469 --> 02:17:16,319
where it's just kind of and experiencers

3688
02:17:20,790 --> 02:17:18,479
talk about this often this kind of like

3689
02:17:22,629 --> 02:17:20,800
you know almost as if you suddenly are

3690
02:17:24,629 --> 02:17:22,639
aware that you're being monitored in

3691
02:17:26,629 --> 02:17:24,639
some way or that something's about to

3692
02:17:28,389 --> 02:17:26,639
happen and sometimes it's because of

3693
02:17:30,309 --> 02:17:28,399
something that you're just

3694
02:17:32,309 --> 02:17:30,319
you're like you like you're just barely

3695
02:17:33,349 --> 02:17:32,319
perceptible of there's sometimes like a

3696
02:17:35,910 --> 02:17:33,359
hum

3697
02:17:36,790 --> 02:17:35,920
or like a light that that comes into

3698
02:17:38,309 --> 02:17:36,800
play

3699
02:17:40,870 --> 02:17:38,319
but like um

3700
02:17:42,790 --> 02:17:40,880
but i i was just like i was i was kind

3701
02:17:44,790 --> 02:17:42,800
of like um yeah yeah it's gonna be one

3702
02:17:45,830 --> 02:17:44,800
of those nights and so

3703
02:17:47,190 --> 02:17:45,840
i

3704
02:17:49,190 --> 02:17:47,200
and

3705
02:17:51,270 --> 02:17:49,200
you know it doesn't really make sense

3706
02:17:53,830 --> 02:17:51,280
but for it like just to kind of like

3707
02:17:57,190 --> 02:17:53,840
lodge my complaint you know lodge my

3708
02:17:59,990 --> 02:17:57,200
like not tonight you know um i i went

3709
02:18:02,870 --> 02:18:00,000
over to the door and like i had my my

3710
02:18:04,549 --> 02:18:02,880
backpack was like full you know i think

3711
02:18:05,990 --> 02:18:04,559
my laptop was in there some other stuff

3712
02:18:07,349 --> 02:18:06,000
was in there so it's like a heavy

3713
02:18:09,830 --> 02:18:07,359
backpack

3714
02:18:11,910 --> 02:18:09,840
i and like i closed the bedroom door and

3715
02:18:14,629 --> 02:18:11,920
i put the backpack in front of it

3716
02:18:17,990 --> 02:18:14,639
um as just a way of being as just kind

3717
02:18:19,349 --> 02:18:18,000
of like no you know what i mean and

3718
02:18:28,389 --> 02:18:19,359
and

3719
02:18:29,589 --> 02:18:28,399
like i get really fragmentary at that

3720
02:18:31,750 --> 02:18:29,599
point

3721
02:18:33,910 --> 02:18:31,760
my my partner

3722
02:18:35,990 --> 02:18:33,920
on the other hand it turns out she was

3723
02:18:37,990 --> 02:18:36,000
awake when i was doing this i didn't

3724
02:18:40,469 --> 02:18:38,000
recognize that she was awake i didn't

3725
02:18:42,150 --> 02:18:40,479
recognize that she saw me doing this

3726
02:18:44,309 --> 02:18:42,160
but she

3727
02:18:46,070 --> 02:18:44,319
her memory of this i didn't see this

3728
02:18:47,270 --> 02:18:46,080
part but her

3729
02:18:50,389 --> 02:18:47,280
she saw

3730
02:18:52,790 --> 02:18:50,399
the book pack the the backpack

3731
02:18:54,230 --> 02:18:52,800
somehow move out of the way of the door

3732
02:18:55,990 --> 02:18:54,240
and the door open

3733
02:18:58,709 --> 02:18:56,000
and she saw like a

3734
02:18:59,830 --> 02:18:58,719
like some kind of like movement like

3735
02:19:05,190 --> 02:18:59,840
like

3736
02:19:07,830 --> 02:19:05,200
then she said she hid under the covers

3737
02:19:08,790 --> 02:19:07,840
and and passed out

3738
02:19:10,389 --> 02:19:08,800
and so

3739
02:19:12,870 --> 02:19:10,399
you know there's been a few situations

3740
02:19:14,870 --> 02:19:12,880
like that where where she's like

3741
02:19:18,709 --> 02:19:14,880
definitely kind of like walked up to the

3742
02:19:19,509 --> 02:19:18,719
edge and has seen like anomalous things

3743
02:19:20,389 --> 02:19:19,519
um

3744
02:19:24,150 --> 02:19:20,399
and

3745
02:19:25,270 --> 02:19:24,160
amazingly you know like she like she's

3746
02:19:32,549 --> 02:19:25,280
very

3747
02:19:35,270 --> 02:19:32,559
person and

3748
02:19:36,950 --> 02:19:35,280
i think she's you know she's pretty

3749
02:19:41,270 --> 02:19:36,960
like

3750
02:19:42,950 --> 02:19:41,280
got together she was not somebody that

3751
02:19:45,509 --> 02:19:42,960
really kind of entertained a lot of this

3752
02:19:47,830 --> 02:19:45,519
stuff she wasn't like a big ufology fan

3753
02:19:49,030 --> 02:19:47,840
she wasn't like a sci-fi person really

3754
02:19:51,190 --> 02:19:49,040
she was like

3755
02:19:53,190 --> 02:19:51,200
but um over the course of us knowing

3756
02:19:54,950 --> 02:19:53,200
each other like

3757
02:19:55,750 --> 02:19:54,960
this whole

3758
02:20:05,590 --> 02:19:55,760
like

3759
02:20:07,830 --> 02:20:05,600
filled with

3760
02:20:09,670 --> 02:20:07,840
books about these topics and like we

3761
02:20:11,750 --> 02:20:09,680
talk about this stuff all the time and

3762
02:20:14,630 --> 02:20:11,760
like and it's and like

3763
02:20:17,590 --> 02:20:14,640
and and i can and i can trust her you

3764
02:20:19,590 --> 02:20:17,600
know and and like and like

3765
02:20:20,469 --> 02:20:19,600
and i think that that was

3766
02:20:23,190 --> 02:20:20,479
that

3767
02:20:25,270 --> 02:20:23,200
along with the experiencer group and and

3768
02:20:27,990 --> 02:20:25,280
along with meditation but maybe more

3769
02:20:30,790 --> 02:20:28,000
maybe as much as any of those things

3770
02:20:33,910 --> 02:20:30,800
um was having a partner that that that

3771
02:20:36,710 --> 02:20:33,920
could that was supportive and could and

3772
02:20:38,309 --> 02:20:36,720
could integrate that stuff

3773
02:20:40,870 --> 02:20:38,319
no that's great that's great i'm happy

3774
02:20:42,309 --> 02:20:40,880
for you um thank you

3775
02:20:44,070 --> 02:20:42,319
have have people around you have

3776
02:20:44,710 --> 02:20:44,080
experiences when you're not around do

3777
02:20:49,990 --> 02:20:44,720
you

3778
02:20:54,550 --> 02:20:51,990
oh gosh that's hard to say because like

3779
02:20:56,230 --> 02:20:54,560
you know if i like if i

3780
02:20:57,830 --> 02:20:56,240
if they're in a proximity to me and

3781
02:20:59,270 --> 02:20:57,840
something weird happens to them like

3782
02:21:01,750 --> 02:20:59,280
we're like

3783
02:21:03,750 --> 02:21:01,760
okay like um

3784
02:21:05,190 --> 02:21:03,760
here's okay here's something interesting

3785
02:21:08,389 --> 02:21:05,200
i was just hanging out with my like a

3786
02:21:10,309 --> 02:21:08,399
friend of mine um who um now lives in

3787
02:21:11,590 --> 02:21:10,319
florida right and um

3788
02:21:13,590 --> 02:21:11,600
and we were just talking about this last

3789
02:21:15,670 --> 02:21:13,600
night and he and one of my other friends

3790
02:21:18,550 --> 02:21:15,680
who was there last night as well they

3791
02:21:21,429 --> 02:21:18,560
spotted a huge ufo when they were

3792
02:21:23,670 --> 02:21:21,439
driving down to virginia for his wedding

3793
02:21:25,190 --> 02:21:23,680
and like i like at the last minute i

3794
02:21:26,870 --> 02:21:25,200
couldn't go for work

3795
02:21:28,630 --> 02:21:26,880
and

3796
02:21:30,309 --> 02:21:28,640
the amazing thing is is that like we've

3797
02:21:32,070 --> 02:21:30,319
been friends for like i've been friends

3798
02:21:34,070 --> 02:21:32,080
with this guy for like

3799
02:21:35,910 --> 02:21:34,080
about 20 years now

3800
02:21:37,030 --> 02:21:35,920
and like

3801
02:21:38,469 --> 02:21:37,040
we

3802
02:21:39,510 --> 02:21:38,479
like i'd been

3803
02:21:42,309 --> 02:21:39,520
like

3804
02:21:44,389 --> 02:21:42,319
hiding this about myself from him

3805
02:21:47,110 --> 02:21:44,399
and like he

3806
02:21:49,590 --> 02:21:47,120
and my other friends like had

3807
02:21:52,830 --> 02:21:49,600
conveniently avoided talking about how

3808
02:21:56,469 --> 02:21:52,840
they both had spotted this like

3809
02:21:58,870 --> 02:21:56,479
enormous uh like uh craft like hovering

3810
02:21:59,830 --> 02:21:58,880
over the highway on the way to his

3811
02:22:01,349 --> 02:21:59,840
wedding

3812
02:22:03,429 --> 02:22:01,359
and it's just like how many of those

3813
02:22:05,590 --> 02:22:03,439
kinds of conversations are people

3814
02:22:07,429 --> 02:22:05,600
avoiding right now you know what i mean

3815
02:22:10,070 --> 02:22:07,439
like how like how much of the time it's

3816
02:22:10,870 --> 02:22:10,080
just like if people if the stigma wasn't

3817
02:22:11,670 --> 02:22:10,880
there

3818
02:22:17,910 --> 02:22:11,680
like

3819
02:22:19,910 --> 02:22:17,920
of everybody is it more than half of

3820
02:22:22,790 --> 02:22:19,920
everybody you know i'm not i'm not sure

3821
02:22:25,349 --> 02:22:22,800
you know what i mean like er like it's

3822
02:22:27,670 --> 02:22:25,359
it's clearly more than we it's it's

3823
02:22:28,630 --> 02:22:27,680
clearly more than some people think

3824
02:22:31,429 --> 02:22:28,640
right

3825
02:22:33,030 --> 02:22:31,439
um but as far as like what's that go

3826
02:22:35,270 --> 02:22:33,040
ahead no i'm agreeing definitely yeah

3827
02:22:38,630 --> 02:22:35,280
just a matter of you said how much

3828
02:22:40,710 --> 02:22:38,640
yeah and so and so like i don't you know

3829
02:22:42,469 --> 02:22:40,720
i don't think that i'm like like in in

3830
02:22:45,110 --> 02:22:42,479
situations with people around me don't

3831
02:22:47,270 --> 02:22:45,120
think i'm necessarily the key to to this

3832
02:22:48,550 --> 02:22:47,280
stuff like at all i think that it's just

3833
02:22:55,830 --> 02:22:48,560
like

3834
02:22:57,990 --> 02:22:55,840
you know studies or and

3835
02:23:00,230 --> 02:22:58,000
at the same time like a lot of the stuff

3836
02:23:00,950 --> 02:23:00,240
seems to be just like really baked into

3837
02:23:07,030 --> 02:23:00,960
like

3838
02:23:09,750 --> 02:23:07,040
reality and we just aren't aware of it

3839
02:23:11,110 --> 02:23:09,760
or we don't or we avoid it or we don't

3840
02:23:13,830 --> 02:23:11,120
want to have these conversations

3841
02:23:16,070 --> 02:23:13,840
sometimes but like it ha you know i

3842
02:23:18,070 --> 02:23:16,080
think a lot a lot of this stuff happens

3843
02:23:20,070 --> 02:23:18,080
a lot more than people want to admit and

3844
02:23:21,830 --> 02:23:20,080
like i didn't want to admit it myself

3845
02:23:24,790 --> 02:23:21,840
either but like

3846
02:23:26,950 --> 02:23:24,800
i realized that it's like

3847
02:23:28,710 --> 02:23:26,960
like co-creating you know the

3848
02:23:29,990 --> 02:23:28,720
experiencer group with stuart and

3849
02:23:33,030 --> 02:23:30,000
kirsten it's like

3850
02:23:35,030 --> 02:23:33,040
like i like there was there like

3851
02:23:36,790 --> 02:23:35,040
realizing that like okay like some

3852
02:23:39,830 --> 02:23:36,800
somebody has to do this you know what i

3853
02:23:41,750 --> 02:23:39,840
mean and like there's and like it you

3854
02:23:43,190 --> 02:23:41,760
know behind these closed doors there's

3855
02:23:45,429 --> 02:23:43,200
hundreds of people

3856
02:23:46,469 --> 02:23:45,439
thousands of people that are like you

3857
02:23:48,630 --> 02:23:46,479
know like

3858
02:23:52,630 --> 02:23:48,640
that are that are

3859
02:23:56,550 --> 02:23:55,030
like incredible people

3860
02:23:58,710 --> 02:23:56,560
like like

3861
02:24:00,710 --> 02:23:58,720
like some of the most like some of the

3862
02:24:02,790 --> 02:24:00,720
most admirable people i've ever met have

3863
02:24:04,070 --> 02:24:02,800
been in these communities and of course

3864
02:24:05,830 --> 02:24:04,080
they can't talk like they don't want to

3865
02:24:07,429 --> 02:24:05,840
get fired they don't want to lose

3866
02:24:08,870 --> 02:24:07,439
credibility you know we're talking about

3867
02:24:11,830 --> 02:24:08,880
people that like

3868
02:24:13,510 --> 02:24:11,840
run you know like like half like i you

3869
02:24:15,750 --> 02:24:13,520
know not going to name anybody here but

3870
02:24:18,550 --> 02:24:15,760
like you know like some of these

3871
02:24:20,550 --> 02:24:18,560
like like there's a lot of there's a lot

3872
02:24:22,870 --> 02:24:20,560
at stake you know like

3873
02:24:25,750 --> 02:24:22,880
people have kids you know there's there

3874
02:24:27,910 --> 02:24:25,760
like if people are seen to be mentally

3875
02:24:30,070 --> 02:24:27,920
unwell by somebody else like that can be

3876
02:24:32,389 --> 02:24:30,080
an extraordinarily subjective situation

3877
02:24:33,830 --> 02:24:32,399
and there's a lot of reasons to like you

3878
02:24:35,190 --> 02:24:33,840
want to protect your bank account you

3879
02:24:36,790 --> 02:24:35,200
want to protect your job you want to

3880
02:24:39,110 --> 02:24:36,800
protect your family you want to protect

3881
02:24:40,950 --> 02:24:39,120
your kids and so i get it but at the

3882
02:24:44,389 --> 02:24:40,960
same time it's like

3883
02:24:47,270 --> 02:24:44,399
well like i mean i like i recognize that

3884
02:24:49,190 --> 02:24:47,280
that this is going to be like

3885
02:24:52,389 --> 02:24:49,200
that there they're probably going to be

3886
02:24:54,389 --> 02:24:52,399
situations in the future where like like

3887
02:24:57,510 --> 02:24:54,399
agreeing to do this article with ralph

3888
02:24:59,510 --> 02:24:57,520
blumenthal and like you know and

3889
02:25:01,110 --> 02:24:59,520
becoming public about this

3890
02:25:02,550 --> 02:25:01,120
and i'm sure that there are going to be

3891
02:25:04,070 --> 02:25:02,560
times in the future where this is going

3892
02:25:06,550 --> 02:25:04,080
to kind of like

3893
02:25:09,110 --> 02:25:06,560
uh where it it might you know kind of

3894
02:25:11,030 --> 02:25:09,120
bite me in the behind you know but like

3895
02:25:13,830 --> 02:25:11,040
at the same time like

3896
02:25:16,550 --> 02:25:13,840
it like we need to keep pushing this

3897
02:25:17,429 --> 02:25:16,560
ball down the field because like

3898
02:25:18,710 --> 02:25:17,439
like

3899
02:25:25,030 --> 02:25:18,720
these are

3900
02:25:27,110 --> 02:25:25,040
like what else are we doing if like if

3901
02:25:28,870 --> 02:25:27,120
we don't keep asking big questions like

3902
02:25:30,070 --> 02:25:28,880
how like the

3903
02:25:32,790 --> 02:25:30,080
like

3904
02:25:34,630 --> 02:25:32,800
how are we gonna progress right

3905
02:25:36,150 --> 02:25:34,640
and like and

3906
02:25:37,670 --> 02:25:36,160
and the thing is is that this stuff

3907
02:25:38,790 --> 02:25:37,680
happens whether we want to acknowledge

3908
02:25:40,550 --> 02:25:38,800
it or not

3909
02:25:42,230 --> 02:25:40,560
and if we can acknowledge it and if we

3910
02:25:44,070 --> 02:25:42,240
can have these conversations then we're

3911
02:25:45,590 --> 02:25:44,080
going to have less people

3912
02:25:47,510 --> 02:25:45,600
that are like

3913
02:25:50,630 --> 02:25:47,520
you know there are plenty of experiences

3914
02:25:53,030 --> 02:25:50,640
that they're of of of denying this or

3915
02:25:55,590 --> 02:25:53,040
their way of kind of like dealing with

3916
02:25:58,469 --> 02:25:55,600
like consensus reality like the

3917
02:26:00,230 --> 02:25:58,479
day-to-day popular culture that does not

3918
02:26:02,230 --> 02:26:00,240
acknowledge this stuff you know it's

3919
02:26:03,990 --> 02:26:02,240
like substance abuse there's a lot of

3920
02:26:06,309 --> 02:26:04,000
that chronic depression people get

3921
02:26:08,950 --> 02:26:06,319
hospitalized about this stuff people

3922
02:26:11,830 --> 02:26:08,960
commit suicide over this like there's a

3923
02:26:15,030 --> 02:26:11,840
lot of that and like it doesn't

3924
02:26:16,790 --> 02:26:15,040
and like like like that shouldn't

3925
02:26:19,349 --> 02:26:16,800
you know we need to get past this if

3926
02:26:23,190 --> 02:26:19,359
nothing else so that like

3927
02:26:25,510 --> 02:26:23,200
so that more people can like live

3928
02:26:27,110 --> 02:26:25,520
healthier productive lives

3929
02:26:29,190 --> 02:26:27,120
does that make sense

3930
02:26:31,270 --> 02:26:29,200
yeah and i'm i'm hope i hope we make

3931
02:26:33,510 --> 02:26:31,280
progress on that front because i mean

3932
02:26:34,710 --> 02:26:33,520
even on the basic ufo front it's hard to

3933
02:26:37,510 --> 02:26:34,720
get people

3934
02:26:38,469 --> 02:26:37,520
acknowledging that it's real um but i

3935
02:26:39,830 --> 02:26:38,479
will do

3936
02:26:41,750 --> 02:26:39,840
and and i've

3937
02:26:43,429 --> 02:26:41,760
you know i talk about how

3938
02:26:45,190 --> 02:26:43,439
people are like you need this you need

3939
02:26:46,870 --> 02:26:45,200
to stick with nuts and bolts i'm like

3940
02:26:48,389 --> 02:26:46,880
listen i'm not going to i'm going to

3941
02:26:50,630 --> 02:26:48,399
cover nuts and bolts i'm going to cover

3942
02:26:52,389 --> 02:26:50,640
the regular news i'm going to cover luis

3943
02:26:54,230 --> 02:26:52,399
elizondo i'm going to cover at but i can

3944
02:26:56,469 --> 02:26:54,240
also cover experiences i said i can

3945
02:26:58,150 --> 02:26:56,479
multitask i mean especially now you

3946
02:27:00,150 --> 02:26:58,160
telling me about your experiences and

3947
02:27:01,590 --> 02:27:00,160
losing friends and other people out

3948
02:27:03,190 --> 02:27:01,600
there and i don't have the answers to

3949
02:27:05,349 --> 02:27:03,200
how we get to that point but i think

3950
02:27:07,190 --> 02:27:05,359
we're going in that direction

3951
02:27:08,550 --> 02:27:07,200
i wish i could be mr positive and say

3952
02:27:09,910 --> 02:27:08,560
that's gonna happen hey don't worry

3953
02:27:12,389 --> 02:27:09,920
about it you know six months we'll be

3954
02:27:14,469 --> 02:27:12,399
there but i don't know i mean

3955
02:27:16,150 --> 02:27:14,479
i don't know um but i will let you i'm

3956
02:27:18,070 --> 02:27:16,160
gonna let you go i just want to say real

3957
02:27:20,469 --> 02:27:18,080
quickly your mom did see some things

3958
02:27:23,030 --> 02:27:20,479
right she did see some phenomena

3959
02:27:25,590 --> 02:27:23,040
sure absolutely yeah i mean yeah yeah

3960
02:27:29,110 --> 02:27:25,600
absolutely and um

3961
02:27:33,030 --> 02:27:29,120
and uh yeah and she i mean [\h__\h] like

3962
02:27:33,040 --> 02:27:35,670
and

3963
02:27:39,910 --> 02:27:38,070
i like um i want to be careful here

3964
02:27:43,349 --> 02:27:39,920
because like there are other people in

3965
02:27:46,230 --> 02:27:43,359
my family that have that have had

3966
02:27:48,710 --> 02:27:46,240
um that also could corroborate things

3967
02:27:51,030 --> 02:27:48,720
but but like they're not

3968
02:27:53,349 --> 02:27:51,040
but um

3969
02:27:55,110 --> 02:27:53,359
like they

3970
02:27:56,630 --> 02:27:55,120
my mom is willing to talk about this

3971
02:27:59,510 --> 02:27:56,640
stuff and there are other people in my

3972
02:28:00,469 --> 02:27:59,520
family that that

3973
02:28:05,670 --> 02:28:00,479
have

3974
02:28:06,870 --> 02:28:05,680
this would be really inconvenient

3975
02:28:09,510 --> 02:28:06,880
probably

3976
02:28:11,349 --> 02:28:09,520
so um you know like

3977
02:28:13,190 --> 02:28:11,359
but yeah there are there and there are

3978
02:28:15,110 --> 02:28:13,200
definitely other people that could

3979
02:28:18,630 --> 02:28:15,120
corroborate

3980
02:28:20,550 --> 02:28:18,640
like more along that front too

3981
02:28:21,429 --> 02:28:20,560
so you know in the days ahead you know

3982
02:28:29,030 --> 02:28:21,439
like

3983
02:28:30,550 --> 02:28:29,040
i want to speak for my own mother right

3984
02:28:32,389 --> 02:28:30,560
like she's she's been willing to talk

3985
02:28:34,550 --> 02:28:32,399
about in the past and

3986
02:28:36,630 --> 02:28:34,560
um you know i i'm you know there are

3987
02:28:38,550 --> 02:28:36,640
other people that i know that that would

3988
02:28:40,950 --> 02:28:38,560
that have been in the past okay with

3989
02:28:43,670 --> 02:28:40,960
corroborating elements from this as well

3990
02:28:46,870 --> 02:28:43,680
friends my partner things like that

3991
02:28:48,710 --> 02:28:46,880
okay so um yeah but uh yeah

3992
02:28:50,550 --> 02:28:48,720
and if you could stop this right now the

3993
02:28:52,550 --> 02:28:50,560
experiences would you stop it if you

3994
02:28:55,190 --> 02:28:52,560
could

3995
02:28:57,670 --> 02:28:55,200
oh gosh um no

3996
02:28:59,590 --> 02:28:57,680
no not anymore like um the thing is like

3997
02:29:02,710 --> 02:28:59,600
i still have all my fingers and toes you

3998
02:29:03,510 --> 02:29:02,720
know like i like i like i've gone

3999
02:29:06,950 --> 02:29:03,520
through

4000
02:29:11,750 --> 02:29:06,960
a lot of processing you know and like

4001
02:29:15,590 --> 02:29:11,760
and i feel like at this point that

4002
02:29:19,349 --> 02:29:17,190
it's it's

4003
02:29:21,510 --> 02:29:19,359
like some of the sensing seems to just

4004
02:29:22,950 --> 02:29:21,520
kind of like be built into my physiology

4005
02:29:25,349 --> 02:29:22,960
or something like that i don't have an

4006
02:29:28,150 --> 02:29:25,359
explanation for how or why that would be

4007
02:29:30,070 --> 02:29:28,160
and i don't know why me i have no idea

4008
02:29:31,270 --> 02:29:30,080
but um

4009
02:29:34,309 --> 02:29:31,280
uh

4010
02:29:35,830 --> 02:29:34,319
but like i i recognize that that if i

4011
02:29:38,150 --> 02:29:35,840
were to

4012
02:29:40,550 --> 02:29:38,160
wish for that like it doesn't seem like

4013
02:29:41,750 --> 02:29:40,560
that's like a wish i don't i don't

4014
02:29:43,429 --> 02:29:41,760
necessarily think that that's something

4015
02:29:47,429 --> 02:29:43,439
that's on the table anyway

4016
02:29:49,590 --> 02:29:47,439
you know but and at the same time like i

4017
02:29:53,510 --> 02:29:49,600
think that

4018
02:29:56,389 --> 02:29:53,520
i like i've i've reached a point with

4019
02:29:59,429 --> 02:29:56,399
my kind of inner work and my processing

4020
02:30:02,230 --> 02:29:59,439
and kind of like getting getting to a

4021
02:30:03,670 --> 02:30:02,240
good place in my in my own head

4022
02:30:04,389 --> 02:30:03,680
for the most part

4023
02:30:07,110 --> 02:30:04,399
where

4024
02:30:08,070 --> 02:30:07,120
you know like

4025
02:30:11,910 --> 02:30:08,080
i

4026
02:30:15,030 --> 02:30:11,920
be able to

4027
02:30:18,790 --> 02:30:16,150
uh

4028
02:30:20,309 --> 02:30:18,800
like working through these thoughts

4029
02:30:22,550 --> 02:30:20,319
these topics

4030
02:30:23,670 --> 02:30:22,560
and like with

4031
02:30:27,349 --> 02:30:23,680
the state

4032
02:30:30,389 --> 02:30:27,359
that i'm in now versus the the the the

4033
02:30:32,550 --> 02:30:30,399
scared deeply deeply frightened

4034
02:30:33,830 --> 02:30:32,560
person that i was

4035
02:30:36,389 --> 02:30:33,840
and

4036
02:30:37,830 --> 02:30:36,399
i recognize that that

4037
02:30:42,309 --> 02:30:37,840
that

4038
02:30:44,550 --> 02:30:42,319
is

4039
02:30:45,910 --> 02:30:44,560
it doesn't necessarily

4040
02:30:47,670 --> 02:30:45,920
mean that something else is going to

4041
02:30:49,190 --> 02:30:47,680
happen or something's not going to

4042
02:30:50,309 --> 02:30:49,200
happen but

4043
02:30:53,270 --> 02:30:50,319
but

4044
02:30:54,070 --> 02:30:53,280
i recognize that being mindful

4045
02:31:01,270 --> 02:30:54,080
and

4046
02:31:03,270 --> 02:31:01,280
like doesn't necessarily

4047
02:31:05,990 --> 02:31:03,280
discourage um

4048
02:31:07,190 --> 02:31:06,000
contact if that makes sense no no it

4049
02:31:08,309 --> 02:31:07,200
does yeah

4050
02:31:10,710 --> 02:31:08,319
yeah

4051
02:31:12,150 --> 02:31:10,720
and um when when can people expect to

4052
02:31:14,070 --> 02:31:12,160
see the

4053
02:31:16,790 --> 02:31:14,080
round table with all of the experiences

4054
02:31:19,590 --> 02:31:16,800
from ralph's ralph's oracle oh i hope i

4055
02:31:21,830 --> 02:31:19,600
hope to have that up uh

4056
02:31:22,710 --> 02:31:21,840
may uh like within about 24 hours

4057
02:31:26,790 --> 02:31:22,720
hopefully

4058
02:31:28,790 --> 02:31:26,800
um yeah um yeah like we we talked for

4059
02:31:30,870 --> 02:31:28,800
about three hours and

4060
02:31:32,550 --> 02:31:30,880
um some of it is gonna have to get cut

4061
02:31:34,790 --> 02:31:32,560
out because it was

4062
02:31:37,110 --> 02:31:34,800
confidential but um

4063
02:31:38,710 --> 02:31:37,120
but like there's a there's it was such a

4064
02:31:40,870 --> 02:31:38,720
productive conversation and i can't wait

4065
02:31:43,830 --> 02:31:40,880
for people to hear it because i mean

4066
02:31:46,309 --> 02:31:43,840
it's really it's it's really awesome and

4067
02:31:50,230 --> 02:31:46,319
like i'm i was i'm humbled with

4068
02:31:52,070 --> 02:31:50,240
the the depth of of of thought and

4069
02:31:54,950 --> 02:31:52,080
engagement that that happened in that

4070
02:31:57,429 --> 02:31:54,960
conversation and and

4071
02:31:59,670 --> 02:31:57,439
it's just great so um yeah that'll be a

4072
02:32:02,790 --> 02:31:59,680
like we'll post it to the experiencer

4073
02:32:04,150 --> 02:32:02,800
groups well i mean like you'll see it on

4074
02:32:05,830 --> 02:32:04,160
twitter it'll

4075
02:32:07,349 --> 02:32:05,840
come up on the experience or group speed

4076
02:32:09,750 --> 02:32:07,359
and we'll put it up on our youtube

4077
02:32:11,190 --> 02:32:09,760
channel and it'll be available through

4078
02:32:20,070 --> 02:32:11,200
um

4079
02:32:21,429 --> 02:32:20,080
yeah but i'm looking forward to that and

4080
02:32:23,910 --> 02:32:21,439
i'm looking forward to continuing these

4081
02:32:25,830 --> 02:32:23,920
conversations you know this is this you

4082
02:32:27,349 --> 02:32:25,840
know this isn't the end of the

4083
02:32:30,389 --> 02:32:27,359
conversation this is the beginning of a

4084
02:32:32,710 --> 02:32:30,399
conversation a longer conversation uh

4085
02:32:33,590 --> 02:32:32,720
that can go on for for months and years

4086
02:32:34,790 --> 02:32:33,600
to come

4087
02:32:36,389 --> 02:32:34,800
so i appreciate i really deeply

4088
02:32:38,630 --> 02:32:36,399
appreciate it

4089
02:32:40,389 --> 02:32:38,640
i really do appreciate you

4090
02:32:41,830 --> 02:32:40,399
having me on the show and keeping an

4091
02:32:44,230 --> 02:32:41,840
open mind

4092
02:32:47,030 --> 02:32:44,240
i really deeply appreciate that i i

4093
02:32:49,429 --> 02:32:47,040
i appreciate uh you

4094
02:32:51,510 --> 02:32:49,439
uh thinking about this and covering

4095
02:32:52,389 --> 02:32:51,520
covering the story and

4096
02:32:57,510 --> 02:32:52,399
and

4097
02:32:59,910 --> 02:32:57,520
to any of your listeners out there as as

4098
02:33:02,870 --> 02:32:59,920
well like i i i

4099
02:33:04,630 --> 02:33:02,880
i appreciate um all the open-mindedness

4100
02:33:05,990 --> 02:33:04,640
and support that

4101
02:33:08,550 --> 02:33:06,000
that people have shown me and other

4102
02:33:11,349 --> 02:33:08,560
people in the in recent days because

4103
02:33:13,910 --> 02:33:11,359
it's deeply deeply appreciated

4104
02:33:15,590 --> 02:33:13,920
yeah well thank you

4105
02:33:19,349 --> 02:33:15,600
go ahead sorry

4106
02:33:20,950 --> 02:33:19,359
no no it's i'm i like i've been i like

4107
02:33:23,110 --> 02:33:20,960
you know they're like

4108
02:33:24,870 --> 02:33:23,120
for months i've been i've been

4109
02:33:26,790 --> 02:33:24,880
and i know some of the other people

4110
02:33:28,150 --> 02:33:26,800
involved in this too that were like oh

4111
02:33:29,510 --> 02:33:28,160
my gosh like

4112
02:33:30,870 --> 02:33:29,520
um

4113
02:33:32,630 --> 02:33:30,880
uh

4114
02:33:35,510 --> 02:33:32,640
you know wondering what this is going to

4115
02:33:37,510 --> 02:33:35,520
be like and you know i was really happy

4116
02:33:39,110 --> 02:33:37,520
you know going going to bed friday night

4117
02:33:40,870 --> 02:33:39,120
after this article got posted and being

4118
02:33:43,270 --> 02:33:40,880
like you know there's no

4119
02:33:45,030 --> 02:33:43,280
there's no uh you know nobody's out

4120
02:33:47,030 --> 02:33:45,040
there's no mob outside

4121
02:33:48,950 --> 02:33:47,040
my apartment with pitchforks or whatever

4122
02:33:51,510 --> 02:33:48,960
you know what i mean like no like

4123
02:33:53,750 --> 02:33:51,520
and i've been i've been really happily

4124
02:33:57,670 --> 02:33:53,760
surprised at um

4125
02:33:59,750 --> 02:33:57,680
at um the the the ris the

4126
02:34:02,230 --> 02:33:59,760
the humanity and the support that i've

4127
02:34:03,670 --> 02:34:02,240
seen and i i really appreciate that and

4128
02:34:05,670 --> 02:34:03,680
i know that it's not always going to be

4129
02:34:07,590 --> 02:34:05,680
like that but i appreciate that at least

4130
02:34:09,750 --> 02:34:07,600
for the purposes of this weekend but

4131
02:34:11,830 --> 02:34:09,760
that's been the case and and you've been

4132
02:34:13,670 --> 02:34:11,840
a part of that joe and i appreciate that

4133
02:34:16,469 --> 02:34:13,680
you're welcome jay thank you so much and

4134
02:34:18,710 --> 02:34:16,479
uh yeah we'll have your back

4135
02:34:20,469 --> 02:34:18,720
in the days going forward you know i

4136
02:34:23,510 --> 02:34:20,479
really appreciate it and i will try to

4137
02:34:25,670 --> 02:34:23,520
show some of my family members this

4138
02:34:27,510 --> 02:34:25,680
who really aren't familiar with these

4139
02:34:29,590 --> 02:34:27,520
kind of cases so it's really helpful on

4140
02:34:30,790 --> 02:34:29,600
that front and we'll talk again i really

4141
02:34:34,710 --> 02:34:30,800
appreciate it

4142
02:34:36,469 --> 02:34:34,720
have a wonderful evening and i'll see

4143
02:34:37,429 --> 02:34:36,479
you soon okay all right jay have a good

4144
02:34:40,150 --> 02:34:37,439
night

4145
02:34:46,230 --> 02:34:42,870
that was great uh everybody i tried to

4146
02:34:48,150 --> 02:34:46,240
follow the comments as best as i could

4147
02:34:49,670 --> 02:34:48,160
it's kind of hard i'm trying to listen

4148
02:34:51,750 --> 02:34:49,680
to i don't know how people do it like

4149
02:34:54,150 --> 02:34:51,760
that i need a producer

4150
02:34:55,990 --> 02:34:54,160
uh that was you know for jay to come out

4151
02:34:59,270 --> 02:34:56,000
i mean he only came out friday friday

4152
02:35:01,670 --> 02:34:59,280
was the first time he went public um

4153
02:35:04,469 --> 02:35:01,680
so this is brand new for him too

4154
02:35:06,469 --> 02:35:04,479
and um hopefully everybody enjoyed it

4155
02:35:07,910 --> 02:35:06,479
and i will i will have more experiences

4156
02:35:09,830 --> 02:35:07,920
on in the future and i really look

4157
02:35:13,190 --> 02:35:09,840
forward to that round table so uh and

4158
02:35:15,429 --> 02:35:13,200
tonight uh with danny silva and

4159
02:35:17,110 --> 02:35:15,439
ufo jesus i'll be on coast to coast with

4160
02:35:19,670 --> 02:35:17,120
george knapp

4161
02:35:21,910 --> 02:35:19,680
uh 10 p.m pacific and hopefully you guys

4162
02:35:23,190 --> 02:35:21,920
listen and i will see you on twitter

4163
02:35:24,550 --> 02:35:23,200
have a good night everybody thanks for

4164
02:35:26,870 --> 02:35:24,560
all the comments thanks for the super

4165
02:35:27,910 --> 02:35:26,880
chats to everybody sorry if i missed a

4166
02:35:30,230 --> 02:35:27,920
question

4167
02:35:32,550 --> 02:35:30,240
um i appreciate people watching and